Having never dropped 911 engine,

[robert walsh]

I have never dropped the engine out of my 911sc, i did my 356 years ago, and honestly I'm not planning on it, just thinking out loud. Am I to believe that the entire drivetrain is help in place by the 4 mtr/trans mounts? I do know that the that axleshafts have to be seperated etc., I just am wondering if those 4 litlle mounts are basically responsible for holding all that in place under under some rather sever punishment, at times?

[Tom '74 911]

Basically, yes.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

As I wrote in my gold-plated Porsche book, tongue in cheek, what you do is put a mattress under the car, undo those four bolts and WHAM! Then you find out which wires and cables you should have disconnected.

There actually aren't many, but the engine-drop process is basically a matter of being sure you've disconnected all the ancillary stuff before the drop.

There are Porsche service guys who simply drop, or at least lower, certain engines to do fairly minor service procedures, like twin-plug changes. I've been told that an engine drop/reinstallation can be done in 45 minutes by somebody used to it who has the proper equipment.

[aston@ultrasw.c]

I borrowed a hydraulic lift table from work it worked out great.

I was able to remove and install on my own in a safe a controlled manner.

Something cheap like this will suffice:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94822

[Superman]

I have a strong metal dolly-table about four feet by 2.5 feet that is about 5" high. When I get all the stuff disconnected, I lower the car down to where the engine is nearly touching this dolly, and then undo the bolts and raise the car. Yes, it is quite doable. I have even done it by balancing it on a floor jack, but that's more dicey. It is pretty heavy. Engine and tranny probably weight nearly 600 lbs.

[Superman]

Be sure to remove the small clutch lever under the transmission before you drop the unit, or else you will not be able to separate the engine and tranny.

[Christien]

I've done it twice now, though within 2 months of each other, because I didn't get the tranny sealed properly the first time. First time was a real pain, took 2 of us an afternoon. Second time was a walk in the park. I had it out in an hour and back in in an hour and a half, and that includes disconnecting/reconnecting everything.

There are indeed only the 4 mounts holding all that weight - I was somewhat shocked by that too!

Here's a tip: when reinstalling, it helps to have a second jack handy (even the toolkit scissor jack) to raise the tranny end up (while the main jack raises the engine up) just to make the angle of approach easier. When I had it out I separated the engine and tranny (I was rebuilding the tranny) and then when I reattached them I was never able to get the weight properly centred on the main jack. Instead, we raised it with 2. The main jack took 90% of the weight and the scissor jack just lifted the nose of the tranny up to keep it all level.

[TroyGT]

I can definitely attest to the fact that all that's holding it up is the 4 mounts... and sometimes the A/C compressor. And, the key to the whole mounting system is the washers on either side of each of the rubber mounts. Ask me how I know.

-Troy

[aston@ultrasw.c]

When you have everything disconnected and you are ready to release the motor, make a note of the angle of the body and the angle of the engine.

Then when you go to reinstall you can set the motor and body at the correct attitide. Or more precisely, you can set the motor at a steeper angle then when it comes close you can back it down and your there.

[BGCarrera32]

2 things:

Drop the engine and transmission as a unit together, contrary to what has been written in the 101 Projects book available by the owner of this site (Wayne). I think all his other projects are dead on but have heard of a few too many guys that try to drop just the engine and get totally jammed up with trying to get it out or re-mate it to the transmission.

That said, start with the CV axle socket head cap screws first at the transmission. This is the area that will most likely give you the most grief, and also why Wayne advocates dropping only the motor if you need to...but I say give yourself some time and get those bolts out and replace them anyway.

An ATV jack with its wide base is the way to go for engine drops. I built sort of a 2x4 furniture dolly-cart on caster wheels that sits over the ATV jack, and allows the ATV jack to slide out from underneath the dolly with the engine sitting on it. Then you can roll the engine around in the garage if needed. Jack the whole thing up right underneath the heat exchangers and it works slick.

[efhughes3]

Originally Posted by BGCarrera32

2 things:

Drop the engine and transmission as a unit together, contrary to what has been written in the 101 Projects book available by the owner of this site (Wayne). I think all his other projects are dead on but have heard of a few too many guys that try to drop just the engine and get totally jammed up with trying to get it out or re-mate it to the transmission.

That said, start with the CV axle socket head cap screws first at the transmission. This is the area that will most likely give you the most grief, and also why Wayne advocates dropping only the motor if you need to...but I say give yourself some time and get those bolts out and replace them anyway.

Well, I humbly believe that dropping the engine only is by far the easiest way to do it. I don't think there are "too many guys" that have had problems. Just like "valve guides" on 3.2's, the few get blown out of proportion.

You simply make sure the clutch fork is lined up correctly, which you have to do even if both pieces are out. Not having to jack around with CV bolts makes this a much more attractive and speedy proposition.

[Facey]

+1 on the engine by itself.

cv bolts and the associated gaskets are a pain, and not worth the trade off. I've had engines in and out w/o moving the tranny...only once was it more fight than it should have been...and thats because i failed to read.

[88911coupe]

Is it generally agreed that reinstalling is best done with the engine/tranny bolted up together? Any benefits to just installing the tranny alone, THEN installing the engine? I guess the only benefit I can see to keeping them separate is that the each piece alone might be a little easier to handle...
I'm looking at getting my 3.2 back in soon and would like all the options.

[Christien]

I never thought of that, but yes, it might be easier to install the tranny first, then the engine. The hardest part I've found (and I've only done it twice) is getting the tranny input shaft into the tunnel straight and clear without putting stress on it, and then getting the engine jacked up into place. That's taken most of the time of re-installation.

[TroyGT]

+2 on engine only... I did it this way my first time and this was a snap. Undo your shift linkage first, then drop away. I put a ramp under the tranny to support it while the engine was out. At mate up time, the ange was pretty good. Little tricky working the throwout arm, but that was only because I'd never done it before.

-Troy

[Superman]

Absolutely not. I a firm believer in removing and reinstalling them together.

On any engine/tranny combo, even though you use the special alignment tool when assembling the clutch, it can easily be a huge PITA to mate them up.....even on a dolly on your garage floor! I have fought with this problem on a number of occasions. Enough so that I SURE would not want to try fighting a 450lb Porsche engine onto a tranny hanging off a chassis at a sharp angle. Nope. Not me. And even if you do get the splines to line up, then you still have to ensure the clutch forks engage the outer edge of the TOB. And further.......if you remove an engine by itself and fail to support the fat end of the tranny as it hangs down, then you're placing a MASSIVE amount of sideways force against the shift rod sticking out of the tranny's small end, in the tunnel. That sideways force would be supporting the weight of the transmission........times about SIX! Then there is the installation of the two 15mm nuts at the top of tranny/engine unit, above the starter.

And all this is basically for the purpose of avoiding the removal of twelve CV bolts? No thanks. John Walker sometimes removes engines by themselves, but he's been doing this (and only on 911's) every week day for three decades, and he has an IDEAL engine support mechanism he fabricated for his purposes.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I agree with Superman.

[Grady Clay]

I agree with Superman,

For the additional few fasteners, you also get to re-new a few important pieces and properly clean everything. Engine
-only is for those who have it out every other weekend for race service. Engine-only was appropriate for swing-axle VW, 356 and ‘flat-rate’ mechanics.

The additional fasteners are:
The eight (or 12) CV joint bolts.
The nut for the battery cable at the starter.
The transmission ground strap.
The speedometer drive cable (or electrical connection).
The accelerator linkage at the transmission bell crank.
The rear sway bar mounting bolts.
The two transmission mount bolts.

There are several serious benefits to this. First, many virgin engines have a ‘safety clip’ on the throttle linkage at the engine bell-crank (sorta above #3 cylinder). This is almost impossible to remove with the engine in place.

The transmission ground strap is a normal service item. This may force you to pay attention to this important electrical connection.

Early engines (pre-915 transmission) need the backup light wires unplugged from the chassis. On a 915 this is part of the engine wiring harness.

The CV joint bolts are a thread unto themselves. Having new (or known good) bolts, new Schnorr washers and gaskets (if used) is very desirable for some future engine drop. Attending to this very important connection may uncover some PO issue best addressed now.

When you remove the engine only, you tend to bend the two transmission mount bolts and certainly stress the mounts. Often you see the chassis sheet metal bent from the transmission nose (and shift rod) being at too great angle.

Sure it takes a little longer. The benefits far outweigh any added effort IMHO.

Best,
Grady

[TroyGT]

I totally disagree... and I've only done this once in my life. My tranny was supported just fine and I had no problems mating anything back up or engaging the fork later when re-installing. Just used a mirror and a light and nudged everything back together while watching from above. Did I mention.. I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE and I had no problems whatsoever.

Now... motor mounts are another story all together.... and I don't feel like talking about it.

-Troy

[dshepp806]

Originally Posted by BGCarrera32

2 things:

Drop the engine and transmission as a unit together, contrary to what has been written in the 101 Projects book available by the owner of this site (Wayne). I think all his other projects are dead on but have heard of a few too many guys that try to drop just the engine and get totally jammed up with trying to get it out or re-mate it to the transmission.

That said, start with the CV axle socket head cap screws first at the transmission. This is the area that will most likely give you the most grief, and also why Wayne advocates dropping only the motor if you need to...but I say give yourself some time and get those bolts out and replace them anyway.

An ATV jack with its wide base is the way to go for engine drops. I built sort of a 2x4 furniture dolly-cart on caster wheels that sits over the ATV jack, and allows the ATV jack to slide out from underneath the dolly with the engine sitting on it. Then you can roll the engine around in the garage if needed. Jack the whole thing up right underneath the heat exchangers and it works slick.

Have you a pic of your lift and dolly-cart?

Best,

Doyle