3.2 engine rebuild and mod advice

[jschauer]

so my beautiful 87 Carrera will be needing a top end soon. Its never smoked but burns a quart of oil every 450-500 miles. I want to add power but not break the bank. I plan to keep this car forever even if I win the lotto and can afford a 997 Turbo and Lamborghini. It's never seen a track but I plan to change that. Mainly, however, it's a daily rig.

The car is stock aside from turbo tie rods, turbo valve covers, momo wheel and H-4 headlights. I'm told it will be around $4,000 for a basic top end. John Walker here in Seattle will do the work and he's great so I know it'll be done right.

I'm thinking hotter cams a SW chip and a duel outlet exhaust without cat should do the trick. No ssis and not sure which exhaust. Changing to Mahle 3.4 pistons would add 4-5k to the bottom line so I doubt I'm going there.

What would you do/what did you do? What's it like to drive? How much $$$?

Thanks all!!!

[88911coupe]

I wish I lived up there...that's about half what I was quoted here for a top end. To be honest, if you're going to keep it forever I'd go ahead and do the bottom end to since as many pointed out before, your practically there with a top end. I did mine myself and ended up going all the way down to the crank but sent the heads off to Walt at Competition Eng.
You'll get a lot of advice for increasing power but if you do that you may want to upgrade your con rod bolts.
Good Luck

[JeremyD]

I don't know - I kinda like mine.

[timc]

If your on a budget, like some of us, then I would not split the block unless you have over 150k, or you have run low on oil, hot, low oil pressure etc etc.

Assuming you are less than 150's, do the heads and rings (if your pistons/cyl are still in spec) , and do rod bolts. These can be done without splitting the case. Then at 300, do the complete engine.

Performance: I'd do a chip, exhaust, and SSI's, and if you have the money a larger throttle body. Open up the air cleaner if you want to hear the cool sounds of the throttle plate.

Your gonna get alot of opinions on this, so just pick and choose what you and your mech feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

[jschauer]

my engine has 100,000 on the odo, runs great and has new clutch. I hear I can go sometime without rebuilding because the burning of oil really won't hurt anything. I don't think ssis will be worth the money on a 3.2 liter so am looking for alternatives - hopefully less expensive ones.

[Rot 911]

I wouldn't go by oil consumption. I was burning quart every 350 miles, but the car was running strong. Decided to do a compression and leak down test. Cylinder #5 showed 100% leakdown. Here is what I found:



Talk about dodging a bullet! By the way, I sent my heads all the way from Missouri to Seattle to let John Walker do the work on them. Did the rest of the rebuild myself.

Somewhere in the last couple of weeks someone posted a chart showing what horsepower you can expect with different exhausts and chips. I did a search, but can't find it.

[rnln]

Is 911 strange? crack valve like that and still running strong?

Originally Posted by Kurt V

I wouldn't go by oil consumption. I was burning quart every 350 miles, but the car was running strong. Decided to do a compression and leak down test. Cylinder #5 showed 100% leakdown. Here is what I found:



Talk about dodging a bullet! By the way, I sent my heads all the way from Missouri to Seattle to let John Walker do the work on them. Did the rest of the rebuild myself.

Somewhere in the last couple of weeks someone posted a chart showing what horsepower you can expect with different exhausts and chips. I did a search, but can't find it.

[jschauer]

my car has 100,000 miles on the odo so I think I have time before a rebuild. It pulls strong in every gear and has a new clutch.

I doubt I want SSIs because I hear they do very little to a 3.2

[timc]

SSI/early style exhaust is a definite improvement on the SC's and Carrera's. I've driven both before and after, you can feel it.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by jschauer

my car has 100,000 miles on the odo so I think I have time before a rebuild. It pulls strong in every gear and has a new clutch.

Did you miss my last post? My 3.2 had 133,000 miles on it and I had just come back from a round trip 1200 mile trip and ran it hard!

If you are burning as much oil as you say you are your valve guides are shot. Your top end needs a rebuild now.

Now if you are referring to the bottom end, then yes I suspect you have many more miles before you need a rebuild. I completely rebuilt my engine. However, everything was in spec and I could have just done a top end rebuild.

[JeremyD]

mine had 56000 miles and my layshaft bearings were showing copper. My goal was to do it right - and do it just once.

Dropping a valve can get expensive - Kurt dodged a bullet

[craigyirush]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

If you are burning as much oil as you say you are your valve guides are shot. Your top end needs a rebuild now.

But he said his car doesn't smoke and has good power.

I agree that his oil consumption is high, but if his guides were shot wouldn't it be blowing lots o' blue out the back? And down on power?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

mine had 56000 miles and my layshaft bearings were showing copper. My goal was to do it right - and do it just once.

Dropping a valve can get expensive - Kurt dodged a bullet

I think the layshaft/counter shaft bearings for these cars shows copper really early - like maybe after 2 weeks even.
-Chris

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by craigyirush

But he said his car doesn't smoke and has good power.

I agree that his oil consumption is high, but if his guides were shot wouldn't it be blowing lots o' blue out the back? And down on power?

My 3.2 did not blow any smoke. Why? Because the exhaust guides were shot and all the oil was getting sucked into the heat exchangers. They were almost completely caked dry oil.

Like I said I had just run my car hard 1200 miles round trip. Ran great.

[mnmasotto]

I had a situation similar to you. My 1987 had 72K on the odometer but I was burning a quart of oil every 5-600 miles. My compression test and leak down numbers were excellent. I shopped around and talked to many engine builders. It turned out my minimum bottom line price was $8000. With 100K on the clock you are going to have to re-ring at minimum. If you have Allusil cylinders, which is very, very likely with an 1987 model, you are going to have a hard time getting a mechanic to re-ring these cylinders. If that is the case, add another 3.5K for new Mahle P/C's. Once you get into the motor you find items that need to be replaced and those that you want to replace for reliability or performance purposes. Anyhow, assuming the mechanic pulls and installs the motor back in your car I would plan around 8K without performance mods.

Also, I have dyno results to prove that SSI's are slightly small for a modified 3.2L motor. I have SSI's, Custom SW chip, extrude honed intakes, 964 cams and a performance valve job with a professional rebuild. I am making only 192HP at the rear wheels. We finally figured out it was the SSI's decreasing flow at upper rpms.

[911st]

If going to the track, find out what the classes are like. If you mod the motor you may end up in a much faster group than needed.

A stock build with good rod bolts, exhaust, custom SW chip, and light weight sport clutch is tough to beat.

If P&C's good would have to reuse.

If no smog requirement, would look for cams that make HP peak at 6500 for that early 911S experience. Something like a 3.8 RS sport cam. Then add ti valve retainers and sport valve springs and have pistons clearanced for the higher lift cam. SW custom chip to make is all work. If pistons shot, 3.4 slip ins.

1 5/8's headers best. SSI ok for around town but not best for top end.

An all out build would be a reground crank and CE Nickie P&Cs for a 3.75.

[Bart_dood]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

Did you miss my last post? My 3.2 had 133,000 miles on it and I had just come back from a round trip 1200 mile trip and ran it hard!

If you are burning as much oil as you say you are your valve guides are shot. Your top end needs a rebuild now.

Now if you are referring to the bottom end, then yes I suspect you have many more miles before you need a rebuild. I completely rebuilt my engine. However, everything was in spec and I could have just done a top end rebuild.

How about getting a compression/leakdown test done on your engine before you decide what to do?

[jschauer]

How does one know if pistons are Ausil or Nikasil? VIN? Anyone? Leakdown was within new car specs at 85,000.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Bart_dood

How about getting a compression/leakdown test done on your engine before you decide what to do?

Excellent advice! That is how I discovered my problem.

[timc]

Originally Posted by mnmasotto

Also, I have dyno results to prove that SSI's are slightly small for a modified 3.2L motor. I have SSI's, Custom SW chip, extrude honed intakes, 964 cams and a performance valve job with a professional rebuild. I am making only 192HP at the rear wheels. We finally figured out it was the SSI's decreasing flow at upper rpms.

That could very well be true, as both cars that I drove before and after were completely stock with the exception of the SSI's and dual inlet/outlet muffler.