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Registered knucklehead
 
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Flag Mirror wiring gurus needed...HELP

OK I did a search and found many posts about this topic but........I am an ELECTRICAL IDIOT. Good post that still had me confused was

electric Mirrors on a 1977 911. - pinout please

It appears from this post that I have Hybrid mirrors .. As the glass mounting is early style but pin connector is late style. These are on an 83 SC cab and has the wiring on the back of the glass and appears to have the wiring harness for the heated mirrors but no dash switch (rear defrost).



My problem is that my car came back from the body shop and they no longer adjust properly. They both adjust the same, just completely wrong.

toggle switch -> mirror action

up -> out
down -> right
right -> right
left -> up

I checked the wires on the switch and they are correct according to the afomentioned PP link. I tried scanning my Bently for the mirror electrical diagram but my scanner wont work today... and it only showes for a single left hand mirror.

I took pics of my wiring as the body shop cut them to remove mirrors for paint process..yeah they ham and egged it but that appears to be par for the course from them friggin morons..

Drivers Side










Passenger Side






The wires in the photo's are


Drivers Side

Mirror -> Body
Blue -> Turquoise/Black
Black/Yellow -> Black/Yellow
Brown -> Brown/Yellow
Grey/Green (Heated Mirror) -> Brown/Blue
White -> White
White -> White
Black -> Grey

Pass Side
Mirror -> Body
White -> White
Brown -> Brown/Yellow
Grey/ Green (Heated mirror) -> Grey/Black
Blue -> Turquoise/White
Black -> Black/Green


There are a couple colors in the body harness that do not match the mirror wires (or my diagram), like the turquoise and black stripped one that is connectes to the blue wires..

Any help in trying to figure this mess out would be greatly appreciated and if more pics are needed let me know and I will get them pronto...

So do any wires look out of place/ connected wrong? Or am I just going to have to cut all connections and try the connect a wire and see what happens game?

Thanks,

Gregg S.
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet, 1989 944 S2
1969 Chevelle SS396 w/427 Vette motor, 1970 Buick GS455
2000 BMW 528i Touring, 2005 GMC Sierra

Last edited by 83-911SC cab; 12-15-2008 at 02:03 PM.. Reason: Added info
Old 12-15-2008, 01:47 PM
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No help from me. But I had to disconnect mine a few months ago. I'm sure this thread will help me next week come re-assembly time.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83-911SC cab View Post
OK I did a search and found many posts about this topic but........I am an ELECTRICAL IDIOT. Good post that still had me confused was

electric Mirrors on a 1977 911. - pinout please

It appears from this post that I have Hybrid mirrors .. As the glass mounting is early style but pin connector is late style. These are on an 83 SC cab and has the wiring on the back of the glass and appears to have the wiring harness for the heated mirrors but no dash switch (rear defrost).



My problem is that my car came back from the body shop and they no longer adjust properly. They both adjust the same, just completely wrong.

toggle switch -> mirror action

up -> out
down -> right
right -> right
left -> up

I checked the wires on the switch and they are correct according to the afomentioned PP link. I tried scanning my Bently for the mirror electrical diagram but my scanner wont work today... and it only showes for a single left hand mirror.

I took pics of my wiring as the body shop cut them to remove mirrors for paint process..yeah they ham and egged it but that appears to be par for the course from them friggin morons..

Drivers Side










Passenger Side






The wires in the photo's are


Drivers Side

Mirror -> Body
Blue -> Turquoise/Black
Black/Yellow -> Black/Yellow
Brown -> Brown/Yellow
Grey/Green (Heated Mirror) -> Brown/Blue
White -> White
White -> White
Black -> Grey

Pass Side
Mirror -> Body
White -> White
Brown -> Brown/Yellow
Grey/ Green (Heated mirror) -> Grey/Black
Blue -> Turquoise/White
Black -> Black/Green


There are a couple colors in the body harness that do not match the mirror wires (or my diagram), like the turquoise and black stripped one that is connectes to the blue wires..

Any help in trying to figure this mess out would be greatly appreciated and if more pics are needed let me know and I will get them pronto...

So do any wires look out of place/ connected wrong? Or am I just going to have to cut all connections and try the connect a wire and see what happens game?

Thanks,

Gregg S.
don't give up. i did mine and they almost drove me nuts, out in a cold garage. i can't quite remember but a lot of trial and error. get 1 side working the correct direction, then move on to the next side.

good luck,

Bill
Old 12-15-2008, 04:47 PM
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My guess is that you've got a mix of early (mirror) and late (car wiring) parts. I replaced the mirrors on my '81 about 6 months ago and had a similar results. In fact, my original mirrors had early mounts and late pin style connectors.

So I thought it'd be an easy swap with mirrors that had late connectors. I wrote down the entire pin config and put it back together meticulously after I fed the wires up through the stalk of the mirror housing.

Right = Up
Left = Left
Down = Down
Up = Left

All messed up. After lots of research, I found wiring diagrams for the two different types of mirror controls...each intended for the two different types of mirrors. You can't mix the two and have full control. I have left/right control working on mine...which is all I really need on a racecar.

The carrera bentley manual is a good source for the later wiring/mirrors. Pelican has a good source for the early wiring/mirrors.
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:34 PM
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Update.....after many days of banging head against wall and trying to figure out what was going on I was about to cut connections to see which wires did what when mirror switch was operated..

IE when switch operated to manipulate mirror out what wire had power.. As I was reconnecting switch it looked a little gunky in harness connection area. Tried cleaning connections and tried mirrors again but they still operated goofy..

Soooo I figured as a last resort before cutting wires I would order a new mirror switch from our host ($69). Switch arrived today, I installed it, and ALL IS FIXED. The mirrors adjust properly now, although the drivers side motor sounds like it is about to blow up.. a lot noisier than pass side.. The switch was just crossing out inside the housing and screwing up the controls.

Thanks to all who offered advice, support or just checked this ting out to see if they could help..At least I know the wire colors are correct although I am a little stymied about the change of colors mid harness.. I can live with it though..

Thanks again,

Gregg S>
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet, 1989 944 S2
1969 Chevelle SS396 w/427 Vette motor, 1970 Buick GS455
2000 BMW 528i Touring, 2005 GMC Sierra
Old 12-23-2008, 05:08 PM
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The world would be a better place if some people (like your bodyshop guys) had their wire cutters taken away. The "trick" to getting the wiring through the small hole is to remove the pins from the connector. I forget what the tool looks like for that connector but I think it's a small diameter tube that goes over the male pin to release the "hooks" that keep it from slipping out of the connector.
-Chris
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:55 PM
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My manual set only goes to 1982 and the post you gave is for the 84-85 which used a different drive system. I'm having difficulty with some of the harness wire colors you gave as they do not show in either diagram.

The earlier flag mirrors used a single motor and a clutch mechanism (controlled by the white wire) to shift the motor action from up/down to left/right. The later mirrors and on into the 964 and 993 used two motors, one for up/down, the other for left/right.

The brown and gray/green wires are for the mirror heaters and are the same on both sides.

Let me spend a bit of remembrance time with the diagrams and see if I can help. I built a conversion unit to add 964 mirrors to a '80 930 and got all to familiar with this process.

I'd recommend you give it back to the body shop as a fix it item but the odds are it will still not be a pleasant experience. My experience even with the best shops is if anything electrical is disconnected it will not be reconnected in the original way but will be polished and shinny.

The colors you gave are confusing.

Later

Jim
Old 12-23-2008, 06:08 PM
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Yea you are right...But if they did that they would have had to spend more than 10 minutes figuring out how to remove them from the connector, easier for those idiots to cut away...

I am actually surprised that they actually had them rewired correctly and my actual problem was that the switch had gone bad, connections from switch to harness looked like they were coated with dirt, grime and gunk and probably shorted something inside when power reconnected..I guess that is what happens when parts are left out in the open in a body shop for 3 years.

I assumed they rewired them wrong because when I picked it up to bring it home the ONLY light that were wired properly were the two headlights and one taillight. Every other exterior light was either wired wrong or not even hooked up. When I hit a turn signal my reverse light would flash. Hit my brakes the running light would light up. It took me two days to chase out those cluster f*&^s.
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet, 1989 944 S2
1969 Chevelle SS396 w/427 Vette motor, 1970 Buick GS455
2000 BMW 528i Touring, 2005 GMC Sierra
Old 12-23-2008, 06:10 PM
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I am done dealing with the body shop and unfortunately I had been so beat down over three years of lies and double talk that I was just wanted to get it back as I could do a better job of putting it back right than they could.. Crap I had the upholstery shop asking me how to put the new Top on...

I could go on for days about the whole experience I had with the incompetence of both the body shop and upholstery shop. Maybe I will start something in the off topic forum for therapy..Think happy thoughts Gregg, do not kill Gregg, Do not burn down shop Gregg, Violence is bad Gregg...The little voices never stop.


I hope that my pain will make someone else's day easier..I know there is someone else out there thinking that they must be the only one getting kicked squarely in the furry little bean bag...Well my friend I have been getting kicked there also...so misery loves company.

In the end though it is still a car that I love owning and enjoy driving any chance I get.

Gregg
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet, 1989 944 S2
1969 Chevelle SS396 w/427 Vette motor, 1970 Buick GS455
2000 BMW 528i Touring, 2005 GMC Sierra
Old 12-23-2008, 06:21 PM
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By the way, can you find a part number on the mirror?

I'd like to verify exactly which mirrors are on the car. It's been a long time since I've see one open but your picture looks like the old style.

Jim
Old 12-23-2008, 06:22 PM
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I can pull them apart again tomorrow and look again but did not see a number first time. I was not really looking for one though.

In my original post I posted a link that showed the motor/ mirror mount that I have as being the old style but it does not have the proper wiring connector for that. According to the link the style of wiring connector I have is for the new style mirror but the motor and mirror connection is totally wrong as that one is supposed to spin to connect to mirror.

All the wiring going to the mirror motors on the back of the unit appear to be original connections. I can take pics also and post them as well tomorrow, as long as it isn't raining here, I am working outside.

This is why I called mine hybrid as they appear to have parts of both styles..yet appear to be factory?
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet, 1989 944 S2
1969 Chevelle SS396 w/427 Vette motor, 1970 Buick GS455
2000 BMW 528i Touring, 2005 GMC Sierra
Old 12-23-2008, 06:33 PM
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It is interesting that I have one manual that ends in 1982 and the next begins with 1984. The '83 gets left out. Always something!

What is more interesting as I looked the 84-85 mirrors used the two motor system I described but according to the manual 86-89 reverted to the old style motor/clutch form.

Turquoise is not a Porsche wiring harness color. They go with primary colors and striping. I also confused about other wiring in the harness.

Sorry about the body shop problem. I've been luck but know many who've had the same experience you gone through.

Jim
Old 12-23-2008, 06:42 PM
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By the way.

Until you get this resolved, do not turn on the rear window defogger switch just to see what happens. Once the smoke leaves the wires they stop working.

Your wiring harness is different from any of the documents. I'll call a friend and see if he has worked on a '83.

On most of the early cars the passenger side mirror was optional and I'm not certain about power mirrors in general. It may be someone built their own harness.
Old 12-23-2008, 09:50 PM
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jimmcc My mirrors work as they should now..once I replaced the mirror control switch on the drivers door top.. The wiring was correct, amazed as I am, and I do not have the rear defrost switch in the dash as this is a cabriolet..Although I wonder how hard it would be to put switch in dash to make the mirror heat function work..

Also I took the mirrors apart and the only numbers I found were under the mounting base..

They were as follows..

Drivers side 40129 then below that was the Porsche # 911 731 023 02

Pass side 40130 then below that was the Porsche # 911 731 026 02

It may have had the pass mirror added later because I have the original warranty book/owners manual with the option codes and it does not have the code for pass mirror in it. That being said the pass door does look like it was fitted with the mirror from the factory because of the mounting holes look factory installed.

Here are pics of the electrical connections inside the mirror..






My Bentley manual shows the power mirror wiring for only the drivers side..would have been nice of them to include pass side as well. Might have made this a little easier. Well for now my mirror problems are solved..hope this thread may help someone else in the future.. And again thanks to all for the assistance.

Gregg S.
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1983 911 SC Cabriolet, 1989 944 S2
1969 Chevelle SS396 w/427 Vette motor, 1970 Buick GS455
2000 BMW 528i Touring, 2005 GMC Sierra
Old 12-24-2008, 12:24 PM
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