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Formerly known as Syzygy
 
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911 vs. 964 comparison

I expect this has been discussed previously, but after significant searching, I couldn't find anything appropriate.

I am curious as to what folks living here on the board have to say regarding these two models. OK, to be a little more fair, lets compare the 80s Carrera (915 or G50) to the 964. No point in trying to do this with a 92 C4 and a factory stock 75.

As a DD, I suspect the creature comforts of the later cars might win out, but maybe not...? What about for reliability and maintenance requirements? General drivability? Yes, some 964s had a flywheel and oil leaking from head cylinder joints problem, but what else? Electrical gremlins, or was that just the 993? The two cars APPEAR very similar, but differ quite a bit. How much does this affect the ownership experience? I know some say to get the newest one you can afford, but there can be exceptions to this. The 964 seems to be the red headed step child, but is this an unfounded criticism? How might it affect later resale if at all? How about C2 and C4?

Thanks for any insight.
Old 02-15-2009, 05:33 PM
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Formerly known as Syzygy
 
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One more thing: AC is a non issue. I usually don't desire it up here in the Great White North, and as I understand, both of them kinda suck.
Old 02-15-2009, 05:38 PM
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I can't say much for the N/A cars, but my 964 turbo has way more creature comforts than my 930. However, I prefer my 930 due to the greater road feel and more interaction between car and driver. The 964t is a night on the town car with a date. The 930 is a me car as I am the only one that can appreciate it.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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I have had an '84 Carrera with the 915 and an '87 Carrera with the G50 and I now have a '90 C2.

the '87 was a marked improvement over the '84 and the '90 is another step up. Better creature comforts, better A/C and heat controls.
improved suspension and the 3.6L is a kick with all the torque.
I have always felt the C2/C4s were the red headed step children of Porsches...
under appreciated with lots to love..
Old 02-15-2009, 09:43 PM
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Apples to oranges in comparison. I had a 82 SC and now own a 91 964 that I'm setting up for DEing. The 964 is nice with its coilover suspension vs torsion bars,power steering vs manual, power brakes vs non assisted, 3.6 vs 3.0 and G50 trans vs 915 and as mentioned creature comfort that actually work. Upgrades all around. The 3.6 is one great motor...

That said the SC was one hell of a car and I do miss her occassionally but there's no going back.

Dan
Old 02-16-2009, 01:05 AM
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964t = 930 engine + more weight & comfort (unless you have one of ultra-rare 3.6 single turbo ones).

3.2 Carrera is a good car, but C2 3.6 is a bit better IMHO.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:06 AM
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I had a 964 C2 for about 5 years... Great car, Very comfortable and good performance... Had to sell it as part of my divorce settlement and at the time that was hard.

But I now drive a 1978 911 SC by choice.

I looked at the 3.2 cars and came close to buying a G50 equipped 1988. Then by chance I found my SC. It was in such good condition that I couldn't pass it by.

I have never looked back. Even with it's quirky gear shift, ageing engine and dodgy electrics it's a great car to DRIVE... And parts are cheep compared to a 964!

My favourite thing is driving it up to our free way in Adelaide. There's a 900 meter tunnel at the beginning and I always wind the windows down just before I enter
Nothing sounds like my SC on song... I have a custom "tractor" style straight through exhaust and use ear plugs on long trips... lol...

The torque is so strong in my car. It can climb hills in such a way that it's hard to believe. Full gradient hills in 5th gear is no a problem what so ever but I usually do it in 4th to just hear the engine. I don't remember the 964 being so strong in the same way. Yes you could feel the torque but it never felt so confidence boosting as my SC. I'm sure it's down to the weight difference between the two cars.

Mind you mine isn't stock. It's been tuned by "Kruger" but I can't find any real information about the company. The did have a race team in the 80s and I've seen an old sticker of a 935 painted in red with Kruger on the side of it but that's all I know.

I don't mean to jack the thread but please chime in if you can shed any light on this company.
Old 02-16-2009, 05:44 AM
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Unhappy

i see too many problems with the electronics in the 964.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:49 AM
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The only 964 worth buying is the RSA. And, that is only because it is rare.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:26 AM
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IMO,

The C2 is the best bang for the buck car out there; because they got such a bad rap, they have always been under valued, but there is a lot of car there.

You can't beat the 3.6, vs the 3.2, because of it's low end grunt and versatile power. Other than the early issues w/ the leaking cylinder bases (doubt you'd find one out there at this point that was bad enough to take care of that wasn't) they are no more vulnerable than a 3.2.

The chassis is much stiffer and they have coil-over suspension. They are heavier but that can be dealt w/ if you want, if you don't care about a/c you probably don't care about some other heavy things too, i.e. power seats. Although they have a lot more electronics it's not Brain surgery, and they are pre OBDII so they can be simplified without consequence.

The RSA is good, but I don't know if it's worth the premium unless a completely original car is what you want, it's too easy to make your own RSA. Now a Euro RS, that's a whole 'nuther animal!

Try to stick w/ '93-94 cars, they came out of the factory better sorted.

Stay away from the C4, plenty of info why.
Old 02-16-2009, 07:40 AM
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I've owned an SC and now a '92 C2, if you are looking for a more raw, visceral feel then the SC wins in my opinion, but for more of a daily driver, then the C2 wins, heavier and more electrical gremlins to possibly deal with, etc., really a totally different experience, either way you can't go lose. Also, 964's are definately considered bastard children by many due to some of the earlier issues as stated, you can really get a lot of car for the money these days, seems people either want a 3.2l G-50 car or a 993. Good luck
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:00 AM
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pantera,

Your 82 SC had vaccuum boosted/power assisted brakes. What were your likes/dislikes between how the two brake systems feel?

Agreed the 964 is often devalued because of aesthetics, and not because of performance. It is truly the redheaded stepchild of 911 cars these days. I think it was because the styling change from the previous 74-89 911 is sort of transitional. The 993 went a long way to take the 911 look to a more modern design while still retaining the basic architecture of the 911. The 964 however falls short of a full blown update (despite its claims of being 85% new at the time).

That being said, a well set up 964 will outpeform a well setup SC or Carrera 9 times out of 10. They are very good cars at a very good price. And i'd have to disagree that the RSA is the only one worth having. The USA RSA is nothing special. Air conditioning delete and manual steering are the only things of real consequence and certainly not worth paying a huge premium for. You can buy a regular 964 C2 and tweak it with performance upgrades and still be into it for less than a stock RSA. Your C2 is going to be a higher performing car than the RSA, and that's what you really want. Will it have or retain the same value as the RSA? No. The RSA is highly overrated IMO. Like Ryan said, the 964 RS however is a different story.......
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:02 AM
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I find my 90 964 C4 more 'fun' to drive than my '89 911. Until I have an electrical issue.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:08 AM
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Had a '82 SC, then a '91 C2.... No comparison, the C2 was a much better car on all levels. I might add that I put a little time into the AC system, converted it to R134, and it blew 39 F out of the vents!!!

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Old 02-16-2009, 08:51 AM
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AWD on the 993 is much better - how much snow use will it see?

the 964 is much more ponderous than even the heavy G50 911s. More of a GT, less of a sports car.
Old 02-16-2009, 08:59 AM
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Some snow, though I suspect it really won't be all that much. You don't need AWD in the snow anyway, especially in the city, just proper winter tires. If its really that bad, just stay home. I grew up in a place that doesn't blink at 8 inches of snow overnight and I never had a four wheel drive until I moved away.
Old 02-16-2009, 09:25 AM
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that's b/c you are lucky to have light, powdery dry western snow

back East the snow is wet, heavy and icy

but that is not your problem... I'd avoid AWD then
Old 02-16-2009, 09:49 AM
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I would really concentrate on finding the best 911 in my budget if I were you. Include the SC, Carrera, and 964.

I love the raw feeling I get in my G50 Carrera. I have stripped approximately 400lbs off the car, so it is neither heavy nor ponderous. For that matter it NEVER was. It has been very dependable too.

As Randy loves to point out, weight is a big factor in whether a car feels ponderous or lively. I would still enjoy a good 993, despite the fact that it is the heaviest "911" model ever built... Thats right! The 993 has a G50 and it is the heaviest air or water cooled 911 EVER!!!

Mike
Old 02-16-2009, 10:04 AM
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What is this "Budget" that you speak of?
Old 02-16-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post

the 964 is much more ponderous than even the heavy G50 911s. More of a GT, less of a sports car.
Well, it's a long way from being a black Audi wagon. A nice GT is something to have in many cases. I know if the Boxster wasn't in the wife's parking spot, I'd have a bigger car. So, for the moment, the Carrera is fine with me. Someday, however, I will cross over to the dark side.
Old 02-16-2009, 11:47 AM
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:47 AM
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