MFI Pump Dyno build- My newest project

[stevemfr]

Why not put out a call for an English manual in a new thread? If there is an English version, someone here's bound to know where to 'borrow' one.
Good technical translations are often quite difficult - and as with anything else, you get what you pay for.
I'd hate for you to have to charge more because the translation was so expensive
How many pages total?

[David E. Clark]

Originally Posted by stevemfr

Why not put out a call for an English manual in a new thread? If there is an English version, someone here's bound to know where to 'borrow' one ...

I've been hunting for these manuals in English for years! I've posted here and on Rennlist, searched eBay and other auction sites, contacted purveyers of automobile literature and online booksellers and even trolled swap meets. No luck! Here is one thread where I asked but only got information about a German language version from 1963 and a link to the Bosch store on German language eBay. Here is another with no responses at all!

If anyone has these they aren't sharing.

[304065]

What do you guys want EXACTLY? I will call my contact at Bosch who was the one who originally got us the manuals on Ebay. If there's an english version in the archives they can get it and scan it and put it up for sale.

[356RS]

John, I got my copy " Bosch PED 6 KL.." manual off the Bosch German site last year for $27.00 plus shipping. Problem is they only offer the manual in German. If you could have them post one in English that would be great. The only thing I have in English is the 2.4 supplement "VDT-WJP 711/1B. This covers the new space cam and "c" measurement and also the flow test sheets for the 2.4 pumps.

[David E. Clark]

Originally Posted by john_cramer

What do you guys want EXACTLY? I will call my contact at Bosch who was the one who originally got us the manuals on Ebay. If there's an english version in the archives they can get it and scan it and put it up for sale.

I would love to find - and would pay for - a clean original English language copy of:

1) BOSCH "Repair Instructions for Gasoline injection pump with mechanical governor" VDT-WJP 711/1 and/or 1B (latest edition);

2) VDT-WJP 711/1 and/or 1B (supplements 1 and 2). I think this is two (maybe three) different documents; and

3) PED 6 KL & PED 6 KL 60/120 R 3 (mechanical fuel injection pump with regulator test instructions and supplement). I think this is two different documents and that the supplement may be the same document as VDT-WJP 711/1 above.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

[stevemfr]

Hey guys,
OK, I just got off the phone w/Bosch Auto Tradition (I was curious - a quick google and 2 calls. Less than 10 mins.). Had a real pleasant chat and was told that the problem is, that Bosch does not have these documents (PED 6KL.. & all supplements) in their archive. They have bits and pieces - some scanned and sent to them by private parties - but nothing complete. If they did, the procedure would be exactly as John stated; they'd print up a copy, spiral bind it, and put it on ebay. The gentleman I spoke to even mentioned that they were aware that there were inquiries in the Pelican forum before I even dropped the Pelican name.

So David seems to be right - and if anyone has these manuals in English, Bosch is interested in a copy. Strange world.

[stevemfr]

Ohh, and I forgot to mention: while doing the quick google above, I stumbled over Koller&Schwemmer's pricelist - €2359.- + tax for a rebuilt pump providing you have a rebuildable core. They will also change the space cam and modify the pump for motors of up to 3.6l for an additional €1500.

I suppose that's a real bargain when you consider the below, but I still have trouble understanding where all the money goes.

[356RS]

So if we get the PED 6 KL... translated to English here in the US can we then sell it without any legal issues?

[356RS]

What was I thinking......I mean the sale price would just cover the printing costs, not for sale as in a publication type deal.

[bavaria911]

Steve,
Did you speak to Herr Sattleberger at K&S Bosch of Nurenburg?
Vr
Bavaria911

[jcge]

Those 3.0RS MFI pumps and test specs.... they're a dime a dozen

[stevemfr]

Originally Posted by bavaria911

Steve,
Did you speak to Herr Sattleberger at K&S Bosch of Nurenburg?
Vr
Bavaria911

No, I spoke to a gentleman (who's name I've already forgotten- CRS) directly at Bosch Automotive Tradition in Karlsruhe.
The K&S stuff (prices) is just off the website.

[jcge]

I think you will find K&S very protective of their business position - they were appointed (or acquired?) Bosch's MFI and Kugelfischer interests. I really can't believe that Bosch were subsequently able to sell their IP in the test docs seperatey....perhaps it all just fell through the cracks.
John

[philippeF]

You won't have any information from K. und S. IMO... that's their knowledge, and you should translate what's written on each Bosch document ....
A friend of mine has an (old) uncle who works for Bosch in germany especially on MFI pumps .. he couldn't tell me anything on the subject because of moral and legal issues ...
Philippe

[stevemfr]

Mmmm, this discussion is going way off track but there are no big secrets around this 40 year old technology. If K&S is somewhat protective of their position (I have not spoken directly to them and can neither confirm nor contradict this) then that's understandable as they prob made a somewhat significant investment in their equipment. Bosch would like to help everyone make their systems work. All documents are available - just not in English. No hocus-pocus-voodoo info.

Mark,
I thought I had replied to your post about the copyright - don't know what happened there. The short answer would be no. While you might be able to make a case that you retain the rights to your translation of 40 year old docs that Bosch is uninterested in doing anything with, you certainly would not have the rights to any diagrams, pics, etc from the original docs. And if Bosch decided to challenge your copyright claim....

Steve

[philippeF]

Well, tell us, if there is no big secret, how to set to 3.0RS specs ...
what cam, flow charts .... and why professionnals don't illustrate the topic ...
and finally, where to get the pumping assembly ... you may tell me in french in a pm ...
( i know what i'm talking about ... )
Philippe

[356RS]

Now Where Were We? MFI Dyno fun, that's were. I upgraded the 1/3 HP motor that was running the MFI pumps with a 1 HP motor. Now there is no problem with WOT at 3500 RPM. Made up all the tools I need to set up the pumps. Setting the "c" measurement is now a piece of cake. Most of that problem was trying to understand how the Germans write out there instructions. Anyway, I just finished a complete recalibration on one of the first 2.0 S pumps from the early 69 S engines. The pump tag numbers are: PED 6 KL 60/120 R 1 and the regulator numbers: EP/RLA 1/20 R. The ID number is: 0408 126 001. Also this pump has a serial number. Never saw this before. The S/N is: 80736576.
The clean up and installing parts needed took most of a day. The flow tests took a good half day. Only big problem was #6 & #4 were running about 2.5mL more than the rest. Adjusting the piston delivery is very time consuming because the slightest movement of the piston boss after the clamp is loosened makes a big change in the delivery amount. A great learning experience working with these pumps. Some pictures of the 2.0 S pump below.

[jbell959]

Mark that's awesome... congratulations on the great progress. I have a few pumps lined up ready to send over

[YTNUKLR]

Most superb! What is the AC Tech unit?

[jcge]

Well done Mark - I know you've been spending a bit time on this - glad to see you persevered and got a good result

What was the outcome of the cylinder with no output?

John