MFI Pump Dyno build- My newest project

[356RS]

Posted twice.

[philippeF]

Originally Posted by 356RS

Thanks to all of you. Scott; The AC Tech unit is the motor control system. The control unit is programmable. I have set the min. RPM for 400 and the max. RPM at 4000 controlled by a potentiometer, set the ramp-up speed to max and the ramp-down to max. the ramp-up is very important because at tests at 2000 RPM and up I need the motor to get there from a dead stop to (example 3000 RPM) in less that 1 sec. At 4000 RPM it takes about 1 sec. At these high RPMs I have to do a little loss calculations at the start-ups.
John; I will post some pictures of the pump that had the intermittent stuck piston.
John Bell; Let me know what you need. I'll be glad to help.
Next Pump will be a RS space cam installation in a 015. I will first flow test the stock 015 and document the flows, then R & R the space cam and recalibrate for RS specs.

Hello Mark
Are you sure you will be able to set to Rs specs with a 015 regulator ?
Your pumping pistons don't look good, on that pic ... ? what are you feeling when moving them ?

[356RS]

Philippe, The photo of the pistons with corrosion on them in post #104 are from a 2.2E pump Im working on. After I finish this 2.2E pump I will be starting on a different pump project, installing an RS space cam in a 015 pump. I have the 2.7S or RS flow test paper and I see no reason why I can't recalibrate it to the RS specs. But I could be wrong. This is the whole idea of having the MFI Pump Dyno. Philippe, You have lots of experience with the MFI pump and I thank you for all the information you contribute.

[daepp]

On top of everything else, this guy's a great photographer???

Is this for freakin'g real?

Amazing stuff - keep it up!

[David E. Clark]

Mark,

On the off chance that you haven't seen these yet, here and here are two sites with pictures of the equipment at Pacific Fuel Injection. Enjoy!

David

[356RS]

David, Yes I have and thank you. I used the test tube rack that Guss has for my set up. Notice the wine glass style funnel on top so you can view the injectors if necessary. My dream would be to have the computer based flow test and data. Next year maybe?

[WoodSport]

Hey, Mark - just wondering if my emails got through. Once we locate some suitable meters, I could have the software done in a couple of weeks or less. I'm currently 'in-between jobs' so this would be a good time for me if you're still interested.

/Jon

[356RS]

Yes very interested. I'll e-mail you the specs. today.

[daepp]

Anyone care to speculate on the number of MFI systems produced by Porsche?

On another note, did they ever MFI a 4 cylinder - 356? 4 Cam? 912? 914?

[kenikh]

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

Anyone care to speculate on the number of MFI systems produced by Porsche?

On another note, did they ever MFI a 4 cylinder - 356? 4 Cam? 912? 914?

Nope.

That said, it is possible, given that MFI was available in Alfa and BMW 4 cylinders. Alfa used Spica and BMW used Kugelfischer (and possily Bosch). I think MB only used MFI on 6 cylinder and up cars.

[MJHanna]

I know you spent a lot of time and elbow grease cleaning the unit; I have picked up a couple of Ultrasonic units off evil bay cheap, which would help reduce your labor on future units.

[David E. Clark]

I found these pictures in an old repair book. It's interesting to see how close Mark has come to the factory setup - or maybe that's Mark in the pictures.



© Harold T. Glenn, Glen's Diesel and Gasoline Fuel-Injection Manual, pages 6-7 (1973). Posted here for educational purposes only.

[356RS]

Great pictures David, Thanks. Amazing how the Germans used a monster lathe and converted it for MFI pump testing. Or did Bosch actually build that specifically for the MFI pumps? Must have 20 hp. How could they tell if the MFI pump camshaft all of a sudden seized up the bearings? That big motor would just grind it all up before you could pull the plug. 72 pump that guys working on. Looks like they run the pump without the side cover on the regulator?

[philippeF]

Originally Posted by 356RS

Philippe, The photo of the pistons with corrosion on them in post #104 are from a 2.2E pump Im working on. After I finish this 2.2E pump I will be starting on a different pump project, installing an RS space cam in a 015 pump. I have the 2.7S or RS flow test paper and I see no reason why I can't recalibrate it to the RS specs. But I could be wrong. This is the whole idea of having the MFI Pump Dyno. Philippe, You have lots of experience with the MFI pump and I thank you for all the information you contribute.

Thanks for the kind words Mark ...
But i'm not really experienced comparing to some of us on this board ...
Yes i've done a lot of pump calibrating with success on stock engines ...
The new way i try from some monthes is non factory engine tuning ... I ve understood that the springs are not all the same on MFi units, that's why it's not often easy ... i've one pump at home that has self made centrifugal weights, and that i set to "RSR" flows ... we'll see what happen ... I think you won't have to consider electronic or so data collecting ... the way you measure is pretty accurate and you'll see you will be able to repeat the process with reliability. By the way, the guy that will throw the pump on the engine will have to do fine tuning (often). I believe here 's the hard job ...
I will soon try to do a 3.2LMFI engine and tell you about !... for what i see the guy for that job Here is Henry Schmidt !

[philippeF]

Originally Posted by 356RS

Great pictures David, Thanks. Amazing how the Germans used a monster lathe and converted it for MFI pump testing. Or did Bosch actually build that specifically for the MFI pumps? Must have 20 hp. How could they tell if the MFI pump camshaft all of a sudden seized up the bearings? That big motor would just grind it all up before you could pull the plug. 72 pump that guys working on. Looks like they run the pump without the side cover on the regulator?

you can operate without the side covers of the pumping elements too !

[daepp]

From our late model tractor:







The similarities are many!

[304065]

What is REALLY interesting about the modern Bosch stuff is that they have electronic diesel control. If you read the Bosch Automotive Handbook (I have the 7th edition) they say that there is a no-contact sensor for the rack position and that is coupled with a servo that moves the rack, so you have feedback. Those elements are contained in an end housing that looks like it replaces the mechanical and centrifugal governor of the pump.




It makes sense, the only part that controls the fuel is the rack. The rack is moved by the governor. If you went to direct control of the rack . . .

By the way there is an awful lot of information about the very similar diesel pumps out there. . . here is one example . . . http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14085

[356RS]

Very interesting John. Do you have one I can play with?

[304065]

Originally Posted by 356RS

Very interesting John. Do you have one I can play with?

Mark, it's hard for me to keep anything interesting around without taking it apart and rendering it useless. (Animate objects excepted)

That said, Bosch innovated EDC (electronic diesel control) in the early 1980s, so there are probably tens of thousands of the pumps around. It's funny, our gasoline pumps are a very small branch on the huge tree of Bosch diesel stuff. MFI development for diesels continued LONG after the advent of CIS so there is interesting stuff out there.

[356RS]

I received the Magnesium Treatment Kit today. I had the MFI pump body cleaned and ready for the treatment procedure. Last week I spent several hours cleaning all the corrosion out of the fuel head area. So today I completed the magnesium treatment and also added a black dye process at the end. Pictures below:

Bench set up for the dipping and rinsing process:



Black Dye dip had to at 140 degrees:


First dip was the Magnesium Corrosion Treatment dip:




Then the Black Dye Dip:



Then the water rinsing and air blow dry and this is what it looks like:



Before Treatment last week it looked like this:



Now this is what the finished product looks like: