Is it possible to run tubless on tub Fuchs rims??

Tomy · Tomy's Garage

So have you any experience about that ? If rim is designed to tub tire what is better to use tub and tubless tire or only tubless tire?

Rot 911 · 03-05-2009, 04:53 AM

I didn't even know that there were original Fuchs that were meant to be used with an inner tube.

Noah930 · Noah930's Garage

Chris Banning over on the epic Mulholland thread (in Off Topic Forum) is doing just that. He has some 15" RSR Fuchs that are 35+ years old. Car has sat for about 20 years. He unmothballed it and swapped for new tires. The tire guys found his old Goodyear Bluestreaks to have tubes in them. He was replacing with vintage race tires, and the vendor told him it was fine to run his wheels without tubes.

Geronimo '74 · 03-05-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt V

I didn't even know that there were original Fuchs that were meant to be used with an inner tube.

+1
Me neither.

uwanna · 03-05-2009, 05:52 AM

Many years ago, I thought I would be very clever and replace the tube type tires in my first 911 with tubeless. Worked just fine, till one day, while navigating an interstate "clover leaf" at high speed (as we all like to do), I nudged the curbing with my left front tire. Well the impact knocked the tubeless tire bead away from the rim and VOILA instant deflation!! Don't know the technical terms, but there is something to do with the rim/tire bead system, that keeps tubeless rims and tires from experiencing this exciting phenomenon! DON'T DO IT!!!

Grady Clay · 03-05-2009, 06:10 AM

The early Fuchs do not have the ‘bead seating bump’ standard after ’71. Those wheels include the ‘67 4½x15, the ’68 5½x15, the ’69-’71 (deep) 6x15 and the 911R 7x15. When installing the tire, the bead must go over a substantial ‘bump’ in order to seat against the inside of the rim. This ‘bump’ keeps the tire bead seated in place. It tales considerable effort to get the tire bead back over the ‘bump’ on removal. It is a significant safety feature.

Yes, I too have used tubeless tires on these wheels. After seeing a picture of my 911 at the Portland Parade Autocross, I decided “Never Again”. The 22.5 x 7.5 x 15 Good Year is almost off the 7x15 Fuchs in the rear, although somehow it didn’t loose air. :EEK:

Best,
Grady

Zeke · 03-05-2009, 06:20 AM

The wheels that are meant for tubeless are stamped 6J x 15, or similar. It's the "J" you are looking for. Tubeless work fine on these wheels, but the valve stem hold and pocket deserves some additional attention. I use threaded motorcycle stems.

Most who have that early of a rim and track their cars have a set of track wheels, i.e., newer and not so valuable. Deep sixes did not have the J stamp and we know what they cost!

Tomy · Tomy's Garage

But Ok should we use tub in tubless Fuchs or not? We talking about street driving not autocross or racing.
I see that use tubless tires could make problem but any experience with tub in tubless tires?

uwanna · 10:01 AM

If you have tube type designed rims, I would definately put a tube in any type of tire I would mount. It's a SAFETY ISSUE!! You may never have a problem with tubeless tires on tube type rims w/no tube, but as I mentioned earlier, if you get a good sidewall wallop to the tire at high speed, it will knock the bead away from the rim, and you get immediate tire collapse and that can be deadly. I KNOW!!

Tomy · Tomy's Garage

Uwanna I have deep six! so tub rims...

vash · vash's Garage

when i pulled the crusty car cover off my 75 car, the very first thing i had to do was to get new tires. i had to get the car onto a trailer to ship it out to cali. it had tubes in original factory rubber! the tire shop put new tires on, and i have had no issues. well, by bro has the car now.

the car had deep sixes also.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

there is a group of people who will pay big $$ for looks - the deep six - even tho they are inferior wheels b/c they not very safe

too bad a nice (cheap) forged repro of the deep sixes is not made... they do look slightly nicer

gtc · gtc's Garage

I have a friend with fake deep sixes. At some point they were refinished/polished, and they're now indiscernible from real fuchs from the front. Unfortunately we don't know who made them.
I can't see forging being worth the effort for deep sixes. You won't get enormous grip out of a 205 series tire, and most of the cars you'd use them on are relatively light weight and low-powered anyway.
Oh god... not this again....

Zeke · 03-05-2009, 02:19 PM

Al Reed will mount tubeless tires on non J rims. I suspect he's done over a hundred sets of these. When he mounted mine, I asked about this issue. He told me he's never heard of a problem during normal use. If you are off the road hitting things, you have some bigger problems than a tire coming off the rim. Tubeless on modern wheels will dismount themselves too, under extreme conditions.

As I said, if you're going to the track, get some newer and safer rims. Same goes for autox and crazy canyon carving.

uwanna · 03-05-2009, 02:47 PM

Milt,
Not to be a flamer, but if Al Reed mounts tubeless tires on non "J" rims he's nut's and irresponsible, not to mention a candidate for a negligence lawsuit! Look at all the used wheels for sale on this site, most have some curb rash that I don't think is from "off road use". We've all bumped a curb in "normal" driving. All it takes is a miss judgement at speed to get a good lateral bump from a curb, strong enough to knock the bead loose and deflate the tire immediately.
Why do you think they added "J" classification to wheels for tubeless tire use, because they thought that extra metal ridge made them much more appealing to look at!! Let's display a little common sense.