Yet another lowering question!

[Paulbav]

Hi all, I have tried the search button but no joy! But I am sure someone here will knot the anwsers. I intend to lower my rear suspension next weekend to approx 25", I think after a lot of reading I know what to do
but I have 1 question to ask, can I do this without removing the shark fin stone guards on my rear wings as they cover the round access plates, this could be a bugger if I do. Is it possible to re-index
without disturbing them?
My car is an 1989 3.2.

Thanks

Paul

[Oh Haha]

It really depends on how much you need to adjust to get to 25". If you are close now, say within .25, you can get away with leaving them on, if you need more, re-indexing will require removal. It's not that bad removing them, though. They just peel off. Some soapy water will help once you get a corner started. Pelican has new ones and they stick on just as easily.

Stone guard removal and reinstallation

Installing stone guards need advice

[tonythetarga]

All you need to do is cut decal to allow for the removal of the coverplate. I wouldn't try removing the whole decal and re-installing.

[burgermeister]

The tbar cover is underneath the rocker cover. I would expect the shark fin decal to stop above the rocker cover. So I don't see an issue.

Measure wheel center to the torsion bar center (measure both to ground & subtract), not the fender height, for best results. True Euro (and US) height is torsion bar center 16mm above wheel center. You'll be 16mm below or thereabouts. This method is more accurate than fender heights.

[tonythetarga]

Originally Posted by burgermeister

The tbar cover is underneath the rocker cover. I would expect the shark fin decal to stop above the rocker cover. So I don't see an issue.

The t-bar cover is partially behind the rocker cover. The rocker cover needs to come off and the shark fin stone guard completely covers the access plate. You either need to cut around the perimeter or remove it, but cutting is an easy answer and, when the cover is replaced, looks just fine.
If you need to re-index the t-bars, that cover plate will absolutely need to come off so you can get the springplate and t-bar out enough to index.
This is the time to re-do your springplate bushings and the bushing covers, which will almost certainly be pitted if they have never been removed. Don't kid yourself, this is a big job and once done will require a four wheel alignment and a corner balance. Read up before you start taking stuff apart.

[Paulbav]

Originally Posted by tonythetarga

The t-bar cover is partially behind the rocker cover. The rocker cover needs to come off and the shark fin stone guard completely covers the access plate. You either need to cut around the perimeter or remove it, but cutting is an easy answer and, when the cover is replaced, looks just fine.
If you need to re-index the t-bars, that cover plate will absolutely need to come off so you can get the springplate and t-bar out enough to index.
This is the time to re-do your springplate bushings and the bushing covers, which will almost certainly be pitted if they have never been removed. Don't kid yourself, this is a big job and once done will require a four wheel alignment and a corner balance. Read up before you start taking stuff apart.

Cheers mate just as you said, I have just removed the covers by heating the decal and peeling the cover off I just hope the decal that was on the cover will not get in the way, if it does I shall have to cut it. I have done a lot of reading on this am reasonably happy on how to do it now using the angle measuring method.
You say I should replace my bushings? I was hoping they would be ok as in the 101 projects book it says not to replace them as the originals are better than the replacements, is this not the case?? do you know what the part numbers are for the bushes and covers are? and also what are the polybronze things that I hear people mention.

Thanks for your advice and sorry for all the questions.

Cheers

Paul

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by tonythetarga

The t-bar cover is partially behind the rocker cover. The rocker cover needs to come off and the shark fin stone guard completely covers the access plate. You either need to cut around the perimeter or remove it, but cutting is an easy answer and, when the cover is replaced, looks just fine.
I

L.I.B.

Looked at my car, and you are most certainly correct. There's a 1.5" tall arc that sits above the rubber moulding.

I've had it apart a few times, and I still don't remember correctly. Must be early stage Altzheimer ...

[tonythetarga]

Originally Posted by Paulbav

You say I should replace my bushings? I was hoping they would be ok as in the 101 projects book it says not to replace them as the originals are better than the replacements, is this not the case?? do you know what the part numbers are for the bushes and covers are? and also what are the polybronze things that I hear people mention.

You'll only need to replace the bushings if they need it..ie: shows signs of tears. I imagine the inner bushings will be worse than the outers. The covers, if they've been wet, may show signs of pitting and if they are bad enough will need to be replaced. The polybronze busings you ask about are at elephantracing.com. check out their stuff. In my opinion, the rears can go with the replacement neatrix bushings unless this is a serious track oriented car. Pelican sells the neaxtrix spring plate bushings (2 inner, 2 outer) and the bushing covers. These covers aren't cheap, so you should check yours before you ortder a set that you may not need.

[Paulbav]

Hello

This evening I have taken my rear suspension to bits ready for re-indexing, now I have a few questions?
How do I know if my rear spring plate bushes need replacing? They look ok to me although do show signs of compression, should I just replace them any way? If so where can I get the neatrix ones from in the Uk (need them by Friday) or can someone recommend an alternative?
Next, what size should the rear torsion bars be? Mine seem to be 26mm which is thicker than I was expecting, they look mint, could they have been changed previously???

Many thanks

[theiceman]

If they look in good shape you can swap sides on the car. That will make them "wear" more evenly. Mine look fine also and when I do what you are doing I fully intend to just swap sides unless I see they are worn out.

[tonythetarga]

Originally Posted by theiceman

If they look in good shape you can swap sides on the car. That will make them "wear" more evenly. Mine look fine also and when I do what you are doing I fully intend to just swap sides unless I see they are worn out.

If you swap sides with the bushings make sure you leave the t-bars on the same side as they are now.

[Paulbav]

Cool thanks, I think. I may change them anyway as they are only £60.00 the set.

Ah one last thing, any one have any tips on removing the old bushes?

Paul

[burgermeister]

I swapped mine side-to-side also. Works like a charm.

If your spring plate covers are pitted and rusted but not holy, you can JB-weld the inside smooth and get some more life out of them. If they're rusty & holy (mine were), you can likely still do the same, but I'd just replace 'em.

[tonythetarga]

Originally Posted by Paulbav

Cool thanks, I think. I may change them anyway as they are only £60.00 the set.

Ah one last thing, any one have any tips on removing the old bushes?

Paul

You will need a razor knife, like the type for cutting linoleum tile or carpeting. Cut, peel, cut peel (you may need pliers or vice grips to hold while you peel) repeat.

[burgermeister]

If you are going to replace the bushings, I'd try heating the torsion bar cover tube with a propane torch, ideally from the inside. If you can get it warm enough, and if you have big channellocks or a chain wrench, the entire rubber bushing might just spin right off with minimal fuss. It's the same way you'd remove or rotate the rubber on the front A-arms.

[Paulbav]

Hello hello


Right it's done!! In the end and after talking to a few people I decided my bushes were not in such a bad condition after all so I decided to stick with them and see how it goes, at least I know it won't squeak (fingers crossed, touch wood) and in the wise words of Wayne Dempsey "the originals are better" or something like that.

I was actually pleasantly surprised as to how easy it was to do in the end especially after all the warning of "it's a big job" and "make sure you know what you're doing" comments that seem to go with every question asked about the rear ride height. I found it really quite easy (with my limited tools and knowlage) the fist side took approx 3 hours start to finish and the 2nd side I had done within 90 mins although I am not 100% finished. If in the end I do have to replace the bushes I think I could probably strip it down both sides within the hour or so really not the end of the world, when I started the rear ride height was 26" both sides with the adjustable plates in their lowest position, I have now got it to 25" on the near side and 24 3/4" on the offside but with the adjustable plates both sitting central now so should be able to level it up and possibly drop it a little lower, how low is to low???


I am planning to take it to get a four wheel alignment and corner balance when I have dropped the front which is currently sitting at 25 1/4", again what heights are all of you running at??

I am yet to drive it so will hold my final judgment and adjustments until then but so for so well and a very happy me.

[Mia911]

so how hard was it Paul....

[Paulbav]

so how hard was it Paul....

well as I said it is not hard at all, I personally found the only issue to be the tightness of some of the bolts, the drop links in particular! This is def a job you can do with a jack, a pair of stands, a socket set and spanners, oh and don't forget to pour on the WD40 for at least a week before you start!

Now I drove the car today to settle it in, the rear dropped to; 24.5" rear near side and 25" rear offside.
I need to workout what to do next? I am going to get it aligned this weekend but If I keep the rear at 24.5" and the front at 25" can i use the factory geometry or will it need to change due to the lower ride height (I am running 17" wheels, 225 up front and 255 on the rears) I spoke to the people who will align it and they said I could have factory specs or design it my self but I don't understand what to ask for? I want go use it for fast road with some track use (I only do 600 miles a year so comfort is not a concern).

Any advice would be welcomed.

Cheers Paul

[Mia911]

when you get a chance Paul take some pics and post them up, i'll love to see the new look....

[Gunter]

I like 24.5" rear and 25" front.
Camber 1.5 deg. rear, 1.0 deg front. (Anymore is too much running on the inside tire-edge)
Toe: 0 rear, 1/16" to 1/8" pos. front. (Meaning: small Toe-in front and Neutral rear)
Caster as per factory.

You can set the toe yourself by using 2 jack stands with a string against the tires.
Center and lock the steering wheel, move the jacks with the string at center wheel, take notes what you find and adjust one side, then do the other.

For camber, make yourself a camber-gauge from a carpenter level to fit the rims, find a LEVEL ground, use the gauge on all 4 wheels and take notes, adjust accordingly.

If you go for alignment/corner balance, open all required bolts/nuts one by one. Use an anti-seize lube and re-tighten. This will make it a lot easier for the shop.

BTW: WD-40 is no penetrating oil and not that good; you'll need an actual penetrating oil to soak nuts and bolts.

The suspension height will continue to settle for days after; don't be surprised if it goes down another 1/4" or so.