3.6 conversion: Any 'while you're in there' things I should do before installing? - Page 2

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

now I have a dilema!

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

now I have a dilema!

What's your dilemma?

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

I've got my car in for an engine rebuild. but I am wondering if a 3.6 is a better bet? but i am not able to go to virginia to pick up. and so the dilema of what to do...

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:39 AM

I was just looking at the dyno charts on SW's site. Hypothetically speaking going from a healthy euro 3.2 with chip/bypass/sport muffler to a chipped '95 non-vram 3.6 is about +30hp and +30 ft lbs of torque.

If I had a worn out stock us-spec 3.2 engine the decision would be easy. However that's not the case...

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

I've got my car in for an engine rebuild. but I am wondering if a 3.6 is a better bet? but i am not able to go to virginia to pick up. and so the dilema of what to do...

A friend of mine offered to consider delivering it for me for a small fee...but NY may be a bit further than he wants to travel.

If you happen to know someone that's going to VIR sometime soon with a truck and trailer then delivery could be easy!

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

so pulling out the 3.2 and putting the 3.6 in is straightforward?

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

400 miles one way

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

so pulling out the 3.2 and putting the 3.6 in is straightforward?

With the package I have --- yes. It came out of an SC. It's plug and play. Just add exhaust.

Pull the 3.2 engine/trans/dme/dme harness/coil/fuel filter. Remove 3.2 from 915 trans. Install 3.6 to 915 trans. Install 3.6 engine/trans/dme/dme harness/fuel filter. Pretty fresh clutch included. Add 3.2 exhaust system or use the included 993 exhaust flanges along with a Dynomax muffler and keep the 993 HE's.

Now if you're like me, and want the engine to look as good as it runs, and have heat, then there are a few things that I would do:

Clean/modify/weld up up the 993 engine tins to fit the engine bay seal better, and see post #1 of this thread!

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

400 miles one way

If you've got a truck and can meet halfway then it may be do-able.

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

you've got me thinking for sure. I have to hear back from the shop about the engine first. and I will hear them out on this as well. I will keep you posted.

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

you've got me thinking for sure. I have to hear back from the shop about the engine first. and I will hear them out on this as well. I will keep you posted.

No problem. Just let me know...

NoLift911 · 10-19-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

so pulling out the 3.2 and putting the 3.6 in is straightforward?

Uh...not trying to squash a sale but I guess I would have the same question to you as asked previously, what is the reason behind this as well? - if your 3.2 is tired and you are refreshing that is one thing - certainly cheaper to do that than go 3.6. $6k probably to do right with some mild performance updates on the 3.2.

You are still looking at $10k for the 3.6 - minus your engine that needs to be rebuilt anyway so you are in for alot more...

Sorry - again I guess I am missing something as this makes no sense for 30hp.

I guess people never really factor in the other updates a 3.6 necessitates - body wise, oil coolers, brakes, suspension....and on and on...

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

I am not going at this blind, I am looking at what is involved and have a great shop to help me decide. so I know I won't wind up making a rash decision either way.

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 01:47 PM

Estimated cost of 3.6 install when replacing worn out 3.2:

$9k 3.6 engine + conversion package
$500 exhaust
$1k second cooler (for example 2nd Carrera cooler in drivers side fender)
$1k go fast goodies for 3.6

$11500 DYI install - $4k for selling 3.2 core engine = $5500 for 3.6 upgrade from 3.2. I'd be shooting for 290 hp 250 ft lbs of torque.

OR

Freshen up your existing 3.2 for $6k+.

To me it makes sense to do the 3.6 engine conversion if you currently have a tired 3.2 (or 3.0, or whatever). But if you have a healthy 3.2 then maybe not. Although if you have a healthy 3.2 it could probably be sold for more than $4k, further bringing the cost of the 3.6 swap down.

I didn't include brake upgrades in the 3.6 cost. IMO that's a different project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolift911

Uh...not trying to squash a sale but I guess I would have the same question to you as asked previously, what is the reason behind this as well? - if your 3.2 is tired and you are refreshing that is one thing - certainly cheaper to do that than go 3.6. $6k probably to do right with some mild performance updates on the 3.2.

You are still looking at $10k for the 3.6 - minus your engine that needs to be rebuilt anyway so you are in for alot more...

Sorry - again I guess I am missing something as this makes no sense for 30hp.

I guess people never really factor in the other updates a 3.6 necessitates - body wise, oil coolers, brakes, suspension....and on and on...

uwanna · 10-19-2009, 02:33 PM

3.6 upgrade is a no brainer in my opinion! Took my 3.0SC up to a nicely modified 3.2, then to a 3.6. The 3.6 upgrade was certainly more work than the 3.2, but I
I was delighted when it was all done! 3.2 was no comparison to the 3.6!
The 3.6 is a much better motor on so many levels. Porsche fixed a host of nagging problems with the earlier motors. i.e. chain tensioners, ceramic lined exhaust ports, better piston oiling, twin plug ign, 8 bearing crank,knock sensors,
bigger oil pump etc.
I did my 3.6 retrofit way back in '92, when very few folks had done them. Did a lot of learning by doing, but I would do it all again. After nine 911s, from a '68 up to my current '80SC 3.6, I couldn't imagine being more pleased! My ride doesn't take a back seat to a 964 or 993 performance wise.
Grant

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

Depends on the future plans... I think there is way more potential in the 3.6 then the 3.2. So down the road when you get the urge for more kick in the pants you just up it to a 4.0

but, IMHO, there are several other areas of the car that will need to be upgraded along with the engine so its not just a straight power plant swap and go running... Scott's done a lot of those already so it makes sense here to drop it in. For the other guy who has not, there would be brake and susp. upgrades that would need to be done to handle the new plant safely on the roads when moving briskly

that takes some $$

Enjoy!

-Michael

PcarPhil · 09:05 AM

I just got back from my dyno session. This morning we ran my car on a Dynojet dyno and the results are 206.02 rwhp and 188.99 max torque.

My 3.2 engine has SW chip, euro premuff, and M&K 1 in 1out muffler.

For comparison the '95 993 engine SW has on his site lists 247.38 rwhp and 229.87 max torque.

Another interesting statistic - at 5k rpm the 3.6 has almost 45 rwhp more than my 3.2. At 4k rpm the 3.6 has about 30 rwhp more than my 3.2. The torque differences are just about the same.

Oh yeah...we weighed the car too. It came in at 2361 lbs. with a mostly full tank of gas, and spare wheel/tire, but no driver.

DW SD · 10-20-2009, 09:33 AM

If you back date the cams to solid lifter and use the Porsche super sport grind, you could expect about 275 rwhp and 275 rwtq out of a '95 993 engine.

This is my setup.

If the rebuild is done right, $9k is a nice deal for the package.

Doug

Kevin Stewart · 10-20-2009, 09:38 AM

The 3.6 is just a smoother running more modern motor. no rubber junk to corode better injection period. and o yea you can tell the difference in a 3.2 and a 3.6 when you hit the peddle diiferent beast. Kevin

smokintr6 · 11:19 AM

Comparing a mid year car with a 3.6 and one with a 3.2 is like comparing apples to.... well, comparing apples to the best effin apples you can get your grubby hands on. The cost analysis is also correct, no reason you can't sell the 3.2 and recover some money. Anyone who says that there isn't a worthwile benefit to 3.6 vs. 3.2 is simply not in tune with their car. Also, I think $6k to rebuild your 3.2 allows for a lot of assumptions, ie. good P's and C's. There's no way you can go bottom to top through a 3.2, and make power upgrades for $6k. It's just not going to happen. AND you're probably going to have to buy a clutch and flywheel WYIT, which it sounds like it's being included in the conversion parts...... I know where my money would go.

Please someone show me an 11:1 compression, 964 cam, twin plug, 3.2 that will start and run reliably every day on pump gas....that you built for $6,000. I'll paypal you money for a pitcher of your favorite beer.