3.6 conversion: Any 'while you're in there' things I should do before installing?

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 04:00 AM

Hey guys,

I'm contemplating installing a stock '95 993 3.6 engine in my '77 chassis in place of my current euro spec 3.2. Is there anything I should do to the engine, or any upgrades I should consider, before I install the engine in the chassis?

Here's a quick overview:

1. '95 993 3.6 engine, basically stock with recent rebuild. SAI delete, K&N air filter. Very good leakdown and compression numbers.

2. I'm not sure which exhaust I'm going to run yet. It'll probably be either 993 HE's with a Dynomax 2 in 2 out muffler OR 3.2 HE's with premuffler and M&K 1 in 1 out muffler.

3. Functional heat is a requirement. I've got a RS heat tube ready to go.

4. I plan to eliminate the stock dual pulley setup in favor of a single pulley. I'll probably leave the stock 3 row crank pulley in place.

5. The clutch is fresh. All the oil seals look good. No leaks.

6. I plan to add a Steve Wong 93 octane chip set up for a lightweight flywheel.

7. Initially I'll run a single Carrera cooler with fan. Eventually I'll add a second Carrera cooler to the drivers side.

Is there anything else I should consider? Cams? Backdate the fan for more airflow?

Does anyone have a guess on what the rwhp and torque would be for the above setup (SW chip, dynomax muffler, 993 HE's, PMS flywheel)?

Thanks for the help!

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Hey guys,

I'm contemplating installing a stock '95 993 3.6 engine in my '77 chassis in place of my current euro spec 3.2. Is there anything I should do to the engine, or any upgrades I should consider, before I install the engine in the chassis?

Here's a quick overview:

1. '95 993 3.6 engine, basically stock with recent rebuild. SAI delete, K&N air filter. Very good leakdown and compression numbers.

2. I'm not sure which exhaust I'm going to run yet. It'll probably be either 993 HE's with a Dynomax 2 in 2 out muffler OR 3.2 HE's with premuffler and M&K 1 in 1 out muffler.

3. Functional heat is a requirement. I've got a RS heat tube ready to go.

4. I plan to eliminate the stock dual pulley setup in favor of a single pulley. I'll probably leave the stock 3 row crank pulley in place.

5. The clutch is fresh. All the oil seals look good. No leaks.

6. I plan to add a Steve Wong 93 octane chip set up for a lightweight flywheel.

7. Initially I'll run a single Carrera cooler with fan. Eventually I'll add a second Carrera cooler to the drivers side.

Is there anything else I should consider? Cams? Backdate the fan for more airflow?

Does anyone have a guess on what the rwhp and torque would be for the above setup (SW chip, dynomax muffler, 993 HE's, PMS flywheel)?

Thanks for the help!

7) will be inadequate might as well have oil temps under control from day 1. Be sure that the engine mounted oil temp sender matches the dash gauge. Ditto oil pressure sender though this one is easy to live w/ if there is a mismatch

RS cams are nice if you have a spare $1k or so. No fan mods

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

RS cams are nice if you have a spare $1k or so.

How would the RS cams change the feel of the engine?

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Now is the time to clean the engine/compartment up

'95 993,RS heat tube, K&N, RS cams,

RS upper & lower pulleys, RS console(AC mount)

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Now is the time to clean the engine/compartment up

My engine already has the A/C deleted and the engine carrier modified accordingly.

I plan to do the single pulley conversion but will leave the stock crank pulley in place.

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

How about mono balls or new inner banana arm bushings? Apparently a lot easier to do with no drive train in there....

-michael

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euro911sc

How about mono balls or new inner banana arm bushings? Apparently a lot easier to do with no drive train in there....

-michael

Already done. I did that before I installed the 3.2.

Great idea though!

Tom '74 911 · 10-19-2009, 08:21 AM

Scott -
I saw the FS add in the classifieds for your 3.6 - if my fall income outlook wasn't so bleak, that motor would be going in my '74 instead of your '77! At least it will be put to good use. I will follow your progress on the install and take notes for when it's my turn as it looks like most of your requirements (like heat for example) match up with mine.

Tom

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

Ok, how about the obvious brake upgrade

I did not see any mention past the Carrera fronts you put on during your build thread.

-Michael

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euro911sc

Ok, how about the obvious brake upgrade

I did not see any mention past the Carrera fronts you put on during your build thread.

-Michael

For a street car I don't see the need for bigger brakes...at least not right now.

If/when I start tracking the car I'll consider bigger brakes at that point.

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

Scott -
I saw the FS add in the classifieds for your 3.6 - if my fall income outlook wasn't so bleak, that motor would be going in my '74 instead of your '77! At least it will be put to good use. I will follow your progress on the install and take notes for when it's my turn as it looks like most of your requirements (like heat for example) match up with mine.

Tom

Oh come on now. Just buy the 3.6 so I can stop thinking about this stuff! I'll throw in a couple extra goodies...

Tom '74 911 · 10-19-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Oh come on now. Just buy the 3.6 so I can stop thinking about this stuff! I'll throw in a couple extra goodies...

Believe me, if I thought I could buy it and remain (happily) married, I would! If we could work out a payment plan. . . say. . . $100/month. . . for what, like 100 months? How's that sound? : )

euro911sc · euro911sc's Garage

Wait... are you selling the 3.6 or are you converting to it? Or was that just a typo and you guys meant the 3.2? Not that I care too much, but always nice to get one's facts straight

-Michael

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euro911sc

Wait... are you selling the 3.6 or are you converting to it?
-Michael

Confusing, isn't it??!!

Yes the 3.6 engine is still for sale. I'm surprised nobody has stepped up to purchase it. It will remain for sale until the time comes that I get time to install it in my own car. At that point it's no longer for sale! But if it sells before I get a chance to install it in my car then so be it...

I really really like my existing 3.2, which makes the decision to swap in the 3.6 difficult. If I had an engine that needed rebuilding I'd have already installed the 3.6!

So yes the 3.6 is for sale, and yes I'm continuing to gather pieces for a 'possible' 3.6 install in my car. Just in case it's still sitting in my workshop when the time is right...

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

Believe me, if I thought I could buy it and remain (happily) married, I would! If we could work out a payment plan. . . say. . . $100/month. . . for what, like 100 months? How's that sound? : )

Ummmmm.......no.

I'd consider trading the engine for a BMW E36 M3/4/5!

NoLift911 · 10-19-2009, 10:02 AM

Trying to follow this thread - yes confusing. You are swapping out a Euro 3.2 for a 3.6....I didn't see the obvious question asked so I will - why?

Properly setup Euro 3.2 with exhaust, chip etc you could get around 235-240...I would guess and a 3.6 properly setup, but stock is about 265?? Trying to remember but I think there was a thread on this and my numbers could be way off but that is alot of change for +25-35hp?

Maybe with the mods you have listed you are pushing 300hp?

I have to be missing something -

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:14 AM

Ahh --- you mentioned something I wondered about. Why? Why swap from a euro 3.2 to 3.6? I've been thinking for awhile that perhaps I shouldn't....hence one reason the 3.6 is currently for sale.

I'm taking my 3.2 down to the dyno tomorrow to see how it's doing. I've never had it on a dyno but it feels a good bit stronger than other 3.2's I've driven. Part of that though may be my lightweight '77 chassis and short tires.

You're right though --- it's a lot of work (and money) for an extra 30hp over a euro 3.2.

What about the additional torque of the 3.6? Any ideas on how much additional torque the 3.6 would have over a euro 3.2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolift911

Trying to follow this thread - yes confusing. You are swapping out a Euro 3.2 for a 3.6....I didn't see the obvious question asked so I will - why?

Properly setup Euro 3.2 with exhaust, chip etc you could get around 235-240...I would guess and a 3.6 properly setup, but stock is about 265?? Trying to remember but I think there was a thread on this and my numbers could be way off but that is alot of change for +25-35hp?

Maybe with the mods you have listed you are pushing 300hp?

I have to be missing something -

paulgtr · paulgtr's Garage

how much does a 3.6 go for?

PcarPhil · 10-19-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulgtr

how much does a 3.6 go for?

FS Feeler: 1995 993 3.6L engine with conversion parts in VA

NoLift911 · 10-19-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Ahh --- you mentioned something I wondered about. Why? Why swap from a euro 3.2 to 3.6? I've been thinking for awhile that perhaps I shouldn't....hence one reason the 3.6 is currently for sale.

I'm taking my 3.2 down to the dyno tomorrow to see how it's doing. I've never had it on a dyno but it feels a good bit stronger than other 3.2's I've driven. Part of that though may be my lightweight '77 chassis and short tires.

You're right though --- it's a lot of work (and money) for an extra 30hp over a euro 3.2.

What about the additional torque of the 3.6? Any ideas on how much additional torque the 3.6 would have over a euro 3.2?

Well don't let me sway you or factor into your decisions based on what I say, I don't know much...just specualtion on my part.

Lots of people punch a 3.2 to 3.4 or 3.5 what then roughly turns out to be the same cost as a 3.6 swap - in the end its usually like a $10k proposition with the motor on the other end sold - results vary and this comes up alot. 3.6 you get a known motor - modded 3.2 is a different animal...all I guess what you are after.

All pros and cons - I opted to lose weight out of a mid 80's Carrera to increase my power to weight ratio (cheapest, easiest, most reliable in my mind) - sounds like your 77 is pretty light already. With a chip, cat-by-pass and sport muffler my 3.2 is pretty healthy also.

I think you would find that your Euro 3.2 is kicking it out pretty well on the dyno - no idea about a 3.6 on torque.