Engine Serial Number Ground Off...?

red67 · 03-05-2010, 12:21 PM

looking at an engine to buy today and the serial number looks to have been ground off.
i've never seen an engine without a serial number before.

what does this mean chaps... stolen or what?... ....run away?

or is there a legit explanation?

gulf911 · 03-05-2010, 12:33 PM

I cannot think of any reason the numbers would be ground off, maybe stolen? If you ever get accused of a stolen motor CHP will use acid to determine what was ground off, if its in their database as stolen you are screwed. What did the owner say about it?

tcar · 03-05-2010, 12:35 PM

Are you sure it was ground off?

If you buy a new replacement case from Porsche, it does NOT have a serial number on it, for instance.

pwd72s · 03-05-2010, 12:46 PM

It should be easy to determine if it's a replacement case or has been ground off. If ground off? Run from the car as fast as you can.

VIN tampering

red67 · 03-05-2010, 12:46 PM

The owners in the dark about it he didn't know where to find the nr at first. It looks ground off and really clean in comparison to the case around it. But it may be unstamped. Currently asking him for the Type nr. to determine the engines nature. So would one buy an unstamped engine or is it risky?

red67 · 03-05-2010, 12:48 PM

Ps only saw it in photos not person. He says it looks like there has never been one there.

gulf911 · 03-05-2010, 12:55 PM

dont replacement cases have a sticker of some kind on the engine indicating that? Or is that from re-stamped motors?

E Sully · E Sully's Garage

Ask for a picture. If the number in green looks like it was tampered with I'd stay away from it. Blank means replacement case. If you want to know more about the engine the number in yellow will help.

.

red67 · 03-05-2010, 01:02 PM

Green serial is missing as previously stated, yellow type number i have asked for.

jstobo · 03-05-2010, 02:09 PM

If it is a replacement case it will not have an engine type number(yellow circle) either.

red67 · 03-05-2010, 02:15 PM

Really? How does one ascertain what the engine is then? Its a mag case and has the cooling fins along the bottom centre of the block so its a pre69 i can see, but what's inside?

chiroracer · 03-05-2010, 03:15 PM

Does a mag case have cooling fins? EB

fryardds · fryardds's Garage

The casting number will help. There is also a date symbol on the side of the case too, but it is small and difficult to read if the engine is still in the car.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by red67

Really? How does one ascertain what the engine is then? Its a mag case and has the cooling fins along the bottom centre of the block so its a pre69 i can see, but what's inside?

My guess, is since the cases can be used in a number of configurations, spare cases would not have the engine type stamped, because like the serial, Porsche did not know where spare cases would go, just that they had them as stock...

Makes sense why there would be no numbers (other than part #) on a replacement case.

ossiblue · 03-06-2010, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red67

Really? How does one ascertain what the engine is then? Its a mag case and has the cooling fins along the bottom centre of the block so its a pre69 i can see, but what's inside?

Since you can't see the engine personally, be sure you get clear pictures of the areas circled in green and yellow and post them here. Someone should be able to tell if it is a blank case or there has been tampering, if you're not sure yourself--that will be your first step.

If it is a legitimate blank case and the owner has no records as to it's build, the best that you can expect is a general classification of year and type based on the look--again from the pictures you post (if the engine is out of the car, get pictures from all sides and angle.) You will not be certain of anything else except possibly the limits to which a particular case can be built. Consider it a core engine, IMO.

red67 · 03-06-2010, 09:09 AM

THX A LOT GUYS

heres some shots from the owner guys...
they're not so hot,
hard to tell to my eyes if its just blank or ground off, owner says its just blank.

i think bottom of casing says pre 69
red shroud says S (although could have been replaced)
and it has webers so thats post 66 (pre 69 if its an S) (although they could be fitted to any engine at any time)

my guess is a 901/02 S engine circa 67/68 if all the parts are from new.

jimbauman · 03-06-2010, 09:37 AM

Where is this engine? Maybe have a local Pelican take a look....

Jim

Steve@Rennsport · 03-06-2010, 10:01 AM

Thats an early aluminum case, not a mag one.

The pictures are not sharp enough to clearly determine whether somebody ground off the serial and type numbers or not.

ossiblue · 03-06-2010, 10:39 AM

Definitely need sharper pictures. It's hard to tell if the "clean" areas on the fan support (on the face where the # should be and the side as well) have been blended to hide the evidence of filed down #'s. I'm looking at the bottom of the support in the first picture--where the clean area meets the oxidized metal--and it appears to bulge out a bit where the oxidized metal begins (it could be just the casting but why chance it?) Jim's idea of posting the location is a good idea, IMO. Likely there will be someone from this board that could inspect it for you.

red67 · 03-06-2010, 11:33 AM

thx fellas.
i agree its hard to tell on the bad fotos.
i'm thinking of dropping the idea of buying it now -
if it's the 2.0 litre S i think it is then its a very expensive bit of kit to invest in and bring back to life it's better to look for a 2.2 or 2.4
see post #15 onwards for ref on the s registry here.....
2.0 911S motor build for my '68, advice? - Early 911S Registry Bulletin Board

the engine is in scandanavia (north western denmark to be precise).
if anyones interested in that locale i can PM you the seller's info.

thx again for the help.

PS assuming its an unstamped case... for my own future knowledge and peace of mind...
....why and how does one get an unstamped case from porsche? is it if a case cracks or something, then an owner orders a case and transfers all parts over to that new unstamped case?