Thoughts on this Cat bypass

[RarlyL8]

So it is ok to buy German and not buy Chinese? We all need the work.

Yes, it is.
Germany and other non-third world countries have wage scales, environmental and quality controls that are in line with what the US can compete with. I have nothing against an even playing field.

Oh, and it would probably help if we stopped complaining like a bunch of spoiled sports that the other team is winning and get back in the game.

OK then lets toss all the rules and play at their level. You go first and take a 90% cut in pay.

To directly answer the original post, I have plenty of experience with OBX and even applied for and was granted distributorship. No better way to see the real story behind these prices. For a multitude of reasons I will not sell any of their products.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by 911st

It is so great to have choices.

IMO, there is no proven power difference between the OBX, Bursch bypass, Porsche pre-muffler, or M&K pre-muffler that I have been able to verify or have seen. Not sure but I think the 911chips.com chip is the same for all.

I suspect the main advantage of a pre-muffler, besides reducing back pressure over a Cat, is it can 'help reduce noise' to a small degree.

If one went to far with there sport muffler it might bring things back some. If one prizes a car that is as quiet at possible it is something to consider.

I went with a used Bursch cat bypass pipe for $80 delivered and it did not seem like my car was any louder with the stock muffler and bypass than cat and bypass.

Not sure where the Bursch is made but you can support Pelican to for only $70 more Pelican Parts.com - CAT By-Pass Pipes

The best.

To be clear first and formost We build Premufflers for Pelican,911chips, Rarlyl8 and many others but they are premufflers NOT bypasses. The original poster called these cat deletes or bypasses but in reality they (OBX, QSC, or what ever brand they are going by now)are premufflers. 911chips has tons of dyno info and ironically only sells our premuffler when he has a choice of a bunch of different Brands. It still goes back to Hey for a 100 bucks its hard to beat and I completly understand its just disheartening in the same breath.

Oh and they are 321 Stainless hand made and hand Tig welded

[uwanna]

Hey Guys,
I'm sorry if I started a S**TSTORM with this thread! Just wondered about others experience with this product. As far a "Made in USA", it appears to me that it is certainly not any guarantee of a quality product! Witness the many comments on this forum on the poor quality of some stainless exhaust products "Made in the good ole USA" (at least I think they are). i.e. B***Y B**T and G*L !!
As far as imported products, a lot of companies have moved off shore due to the oppressive corporate tax rates in the USA. We along with Japan have the highest rates in the world at 39%. (Ireland's is 12.5%, which contributed to the "Irish economic miracle"). As long as we insist on huge entitlement programs
and have 46% of all Americans paying zero taxes (in fact most of them get money FROM the govt) I don't see any long term relief in tax rates. In fact get ready to bend over and accept the higher rates on the way from the current regime!
Lets face it, we live in a world economy, not on a totally isolated island. If a company wants to stay in business in a world economy, they must go where taxes and labor/material costs allow them to compete. If not they will soon be out of business!

Just my .02
Grant

[Canuck_Targa]

Well said Grant,

[Targa Me]

can we end this thread now and talk about our cars?

[CCM911]

Uwanna, you did nothing wrong, other than ask a perfectly reasonable question. So here is a perfectly reasonable answer.

I bought a cheap bypass and it works fine. At one point a weld broke...so I had it rewelded and am still using it ten years later. It is fine.

And while I agree that cheap Asian stuff is killing us, I just do my part by boycotting Wal-Mart. But then again, if American manufacturers were so great, then they would actually be able to build a car. But they can't.

How about we all buy the best quality we can aford regardles of origin?

Or would it be smarter to just buy American and encourage the production of junk from GM and Chrysler?

Oh gosh, I really didn't mean to ramble. I guess this is a sticky point for a lot of us.

[RarlyL8]

It's a complicated issue ... all valid points.
FWIIW, GM was largest plant in my hometown. My father worked there for 40 years before they closed down and went to Mexico. There are no GM autos 100% made in the US today.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

There are no GM autos 100% made in the US today.

Not just GM, there are NO cars 100% made here (that I know of) and many US cars are pretty low on the US content list.

The window sticker on new cars has to tell you what the US content is.

In fact, there are many Toyota models that have higher US content (85% or so) than MOST GM cars.

My point was that buying foreign cars, shirts, underwear etc. does nothing to help our economy. It has a negative effect and it's getting worse. It's hard to be a consumer without a job.

[911st]

Sorry Ben, I did not mean to infer Pelican did not carry your products. Your pre-muffler is a very high quality and very fine product. See here: Pelican Parts.com - M&K PreMuffler

Yes, there are pre-mufflers (they muffle) and Bypass or Test Pipes. Both get rid of the cat and can all make for about a 6hp gain.

One might think adding a muffler over a straight pipe might not gain as much HP but there seems to be no documentation that any one makes any more HP than the other.

Additionally, we can not infer in any way from the fact that 911chips has 'done tons of dyno tests and only sells the M&K system' that it might make more or less HP over any pre-muffler or bypass as Steve to my knowledge has never made that claim.

Originally Posted by mb911

To be clear first and formost We build Premufflers for Pelican,911chips, Rarlyl8 and many others but they are premufflers NOT bypasses. The original poster called these cat deletes or bypasses but in reality they (OBX, QSC, or what ever brand they are going by now)are premufflers. 911chips has tons of dyno info and ironically only sells our premuffler when he has a choice of a bunch of different Brands. It still goes back to Hey for a 100 bucks its hard to beat and I completly understand its just disheartening in the same breath.

Oh and they are 321 Stainless hand made and hand Tig welded

[dw1]

Once again, the confusion between a "cat bypass" and "euro-style premuffer" rears its ugly head.

The standard "cat bypass" pipe is a tube with no baffles or other acoustic features.

A "premuffler" (a.ka. "Euro premuffler") is actually a muffler in that it includes some internal features that impact the sound quality and sound pressure level (i.e. loudness) of the exhaust. The references to "Euro" refers to the fact that European cars didn't have catalytic converters as early as the US cars did, and had a premuffler instead.

Of course, the premuffler is more complex, and expensive to manufacturer.

There many not be a measurable difference in power output with a premuffler versus a cat bypass pipe, but from my personal experience, there sure is a difference in loudness!

As was stated above, be careful that you are not comparing apples to oranges.

p.s.
I do find it a bit amusing that there is a discussion of domestic content and manufacturing on a BBS devoted to foreign-built cars! Should we sell our Porsches and buy 'vettes?

- Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------
'87 black/black sunroof coupe w f&r spoilers, euro ride height, bump steer kit, SW chip, Fabspeed premuffler, Dansk 1-in-2-out, bumperettes deleted, CDR-220, etc.

Of

[tevake]

I hope this is not taking it too far in new teritory, but my SC is too loud for my liking.
It was stupid loun when I got it and i had a new muffler installed at that time. here is what it looks like.


I thought at the time it was a dansk sport muffler. But in looking at the reciept now it says gray stainless muffler.
The rest of the system can be seen here.




I don't see any way to add a premuffler. Any ideas here as to how to tone it down.
A new muffler? I don't want to lose too much power.

[Gogar]

Don't forget the other stuff:

If something's wrong with your M&K or Rarlyl8 product, you can call him on the phone and talk to him. You can send him a PM. If something happens or happened to your product that is something he can fix, he'll probably fix it for you.

You won't get that for $99.

[911st]

There we go.

There are basically three things a business can offer. Price, Quality and Service.

Most successful businesses are built on two of the three.

Offering Quality and Service is a solid and proven business plan.

[RarlyL8]

There shouldn't be any confusion between a pre-muffler and a bypass tube. A pre-muffler is a muffler, a bypass tube is a tube. The sound level difference between the 2 is significant as you might imagine.

One thing to consider is that there is much more to the allure of an exhaust component than power output. Most popular aftermarket systems for any modern normally aspirated car do little or nothing for power output, some even cost power. They are purchased for sound and aesthetics. The price of the component should not just reflect noise level but a good tuned sound combined with quality reliable workmanship. The component should never cost you power but some do and folks still buy them; again for sound and looks (do those ricer fart cans really add power?).

As for this chat being about German cars I would imagine it very rare in 2010 to find anyone looking for a $99 bypass pipe for an SC or Carrera they bought brand new from Germany. A used car is a used car and the money was spent here; and again, Germany is on a more even playing field with the US for healthy manufacturing competition.

[tevake]

Interesting thread, sorry for the interruption. I guess I should start another for my questions?
Cheers Richard

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by tevake

Interesting thread, sorry for the interruption. I guess I should start another for my questions?
Cheers Richard

Richard,

Looks to me like you have an "exhaust backdate", if that is indeed an SC motor. People get rid of the SC headers and heater boxes, and add the older style, which adds a little 'oomph."

With "exhaust backdate", the way the exhaust is routed the area of concern for this thread doesn't even exist anymore, so that's why you can't find it.

A stock "2-into 1" muffler would work fine for you, but there may be no change, or there may be a great change. If you can find any markings on the muffler you could find out if indeed it is a Dansk or not.

The aftermarket mufflers like Bursch or M&K available on this site (in general) will provide a more aggressive note than stock.

[khamul02]

I have been running this for a couple years with no issues.

[rnln]

khamul02,
you mean the same one the original poster posted?
Is it a cat by pass or is it a premuffler (has resonate part inside)?
How is the fitting? Do you have to modify the O2 bung or anything else?
Thanks.

[wdfifteen]

I get a certain pleasure out of using well-made tools and equipment that goes far beyond the utility of the unit. For me that adds value. I often find myself paying dearly for that feel of quality, so it's a luxury I don't always indulge in. I put an M&K premuffler on my car and I'm happy with it for that reason.

[911st]

Complaining about China is like spitting into the wind. There is not much to be gained from it and it only has entertainment and recreational value.

It is kind of like getting in a fight and complaining the other guy did not fight fair because he kicked you in the nutts.

It is kind of like an established business complaining that it is not fair that there competition works out of there house and probably dose not have proper insurance nor pays much in the way of health, retirement, or other benefits.

Saying China only makes junk is like saying Domestic companies only make quality products.

We also have a history of abusing our environment on our road to becoming an economic power house but we want to think China should be held to a higher standard. Yes we could and should 'all' do better in this respect.

Not long ago the average person in China had an average dally caloric intake of about 600 calories. I believe last decade they raised some 300 million people out of the poverty level through mostly hard work.

With their business success there population growth rate is starting to slow and mirror other developed countries. As they evolve, they will be more like the rest of the developed world as they demand cars, homes, education, luxury items, and yes -- better wages. Remember when Japan was a cheap producer.

Then there is Walmart. Walmart is so successful because they fill a need better than probably almost anyone. This threatens some people.

It not only provides jobs to millions, it helps to support millions of our retired as they are who own its stock ether directly or through pension and investment funds.

It can deliver products more efficiently (cost, fuel, environmentally) to end users than any other company. A family can buy a shirt, jeans, and tennis shoes for there kid to go to school for about $40 plus taxes instead of say $100+ if they had to buy domestic and at a neighborhood store. If a family can not afford air conditioning they can buy a box fan for $14 instead of $50 to give them at least a little relief. Walmart effectively is rasing the standard of living of our retired, economically challenged families, and everyone else more than any government entitlement program ever will. Still, people seem to have to blame something or someone for some reason.

It seems we would rather have fewer working for a 'civilized' wage, take there earned money from them, and give it to those that can not find a job or do not want to work.

I would much rather my friends and I have the option of taking a competitive wage than have our industry held hostage to expenses and business practices it can not control or fail under the weight of inflexibility.

If you put a lid on or restrain something, pressure will build until there is a consequence or reaction.

I am far from and expert on politics and economics so this is just a recreation rant I guess.