You mean like machine shops not willing to turn on their machines until X amount of Y is going in.. As one who have taken on project, but much smaller, I know that it never goes as simple as..

Richard here or is it Dave
 

Tom (if you're really Tom),

I enjoy sparring with the good folks on these forums and I can certain appreciate everyone's position. Here is what I find fascinating:

Post a good experience with a vendor and many people jump on the band wagon and describe their good experience with the same vendor. At no time does anyone post their bad experience with the same vendor on the thread (I call that pissing in someone's porridge) ... Good forum etiquette.

On the other hand, when someone posts a bad experience with a vendor, many people post their good experience with that same vendor in order to defend the vendor ... Not good forum etiquette. As a matter of fact, typically it leads to personal attacks on the character of the original poster.

What this leads to is people are hesitant to post their bad experience on the forum and we all loose. Many years ago I thought the information on these forums relative to the vendors that troll here was accurate and true. But, what I've come to realize through my personal experience is that the these forums are very biased towards praising vendors and any negative information is not acceptable to the "cheerleaders" or sometimes the moderators. To each his own, but I choose to listen to what people have to say and I certainly have no reason to attack them because they had an experience different from mine.

I say speak your mind, respect the point of view of others and there is no reason to get personal.

One more thing, my name is Dave.:D

Tom,

I for one am not a Zuff cheerleader, I only stated what I believe to be the facts. It's plain and simple....if you want to buy wheels from them today, then you would need to accept two facts
1. You might have to wait 12 months to get them (call Keith to get an accurate leadtime)
2. You have to pay upfront.

If you accept the facts or the "truth", then good for you. You will probably be happy with the product.

If you don't like it, then simply go somewhere else.

It's really simple.

Best Regards,
Alfonso

Dave,

I think we try to be careful to give the benefit-of-the-doubt. Maybe too careful.

But I have seen where people/venders do get blasted as well, but for good reason. Search for Motor Meister and Victory Motorcars. There might be others too, but those I am familiar with.

Best Regards,
Alfonso

I, as an Alton/Zuffenhaus Fuch cheerleader (not my term BTW), have to say I got irritated not at people's criticisms of the wait times, but at the hinted remarks that there was unsavory intent by taking the money up front. People who have limited knowledge about which they speak (because they've never bothered to call the manufacturer or place an order) suggested that the manufacturer(s) were out to make a quick buck (also not my term) by taking payment in full (instead of deposits) up front. Granted my only contact with Jeff and Keith have been through a handful of telephone calls and emails, but I never got the sense that they were sneaky or conniving people. But hey, maybe my spider sense was way off. As noted 2 posts above, now that the wheels are in regular production, if you don't like paying up front and waiting, go buy another product. The product, though, is pretty awesome.

In January of 2010 a Pelican member named Varyat and myself each called Zuffenhaus to order their "Fuchs" wheels. Keith informed us both that it would take 12 weeks to recieve the wheels, and that he wanted the full $3500 up front. I decided to pass because I have never heard of a business requiring the full amount for anything that you have to wait three months to get. Varyat, on the other hand, ordered the wheels and paid $3500 up front. As of a couple of weeks ago, Varyat has still not recieved his wheels.

I am amazed that anyone on this thread would continue to defend Zuffenhaus. You'll have to ask Varyat what he thinks.

You're right. I'd be pissed if I was told 12 weeks and it had been more like 52 with no end in sight. Fortunately that wasn't the deal when I signed up, pre-Zuff.

And when you get the beautiful ~15lb wheels on your car, you sit back and say what wait?

cool wheels but i think ill do something else dont need the drama, Kevin

*In a 12 step program group voice* Hi, Dave... :)

I agree with this point. I think it's a good observation of what goes on here. Most don't want to bad mouth the vendors. Call it political correctness or whatever. And then people attack those posters with bad experiences. Crazy... When a person is just relating a poor experience, let him do that and be happy for it. Personal attacks suck.

Yes, there are the Zuff "cheerleaders", and that's fine. I should count myself lucky, I think. I waited six months for a 7-9 week shipping promise. There were some mitigating circumstances, but it still kinda pissed me off. The wheels are very nice,, and Ed's comment is pretty accurate for me. However, my car sits for the winter, so I didn't have the car in the driveway waiting to go, stewing that my wheels weren't here.

efhughes3
In the immortal words of P.T.Barnum: There's a sucker born everyday.

So what genius idea does this imply? Are you saying that those of us that have purchased these bought an inferior product?

If that is your message, then you just showed something to all of us who know the design and specifics of these wheels.

I'm going to chime in here since I was one of the original purchasers.
Make no mistake about it, the design & quality promised was delivered. Jeff did a fantastic job at that on his end. And may I add a pleasure to work with.

Where I had issues were the delays, and actually not with the delays but with the lack of response for Zeff. And when they replied either by phone, emails, and posts here on this forum it, in MHO, was 95% speak. I'm a grown man... tell me like it is. I was finally told, and not by Zeff or Jeff, that my wheels were the next to last ones being built due to the rears literally being one offs. If I had been told that originally I could have opted to wait, which I would have done or had 'standard' wheels made.

I've spoken to a few folks that know the crew at Zeff and am told they are a stand-up organization.
It's certainly a tough situation.

efhughes3
Hmmm...let me see. When you talk about "design and specifics", are you talking about the problem with broken bolts that some buyers have experienced with these brilliantly designed wheels? Or are you referring to the problem many owners have had keeping air in the tires on these amazing, astounding wheels? Or maybe the fact that the originally promised delivery time of twelve weeks stretched into fifty-two weeks for these beauties? Or possibly the difficulty getting phone calls returned? Or how about all the lame excuses and double talk concerning delivery delays?
Which is it, Einstein? Huh?

tom84930 - why are you dogging Ed?

He's the first person that put his money where his mouth is and had the longest wait for wheels. He (as well as a few others) suffered through some teething processes of a new product.

You bought wheels from another vendor because you were not comfortable with the money up front or the wait. That's what people do - they choose.

So where is your dog in this fight?

And if Ed's a sucker - then I'm a 2X sucker (bought two sets and waited for both.

But really - if it wasn't for some of us taking a risk - and paying up front - there would probably NEVER would have been a Alton Fuch.

Tom & Ed ... Do I need to take the two of you behind the woodshed? Sparring is good, getting personal is bad ... That's what gets these threads closed or worse yet, deleted.

You can go to Sears and walk out the same day with your brand new $150.00 off the rack suit.

You can go to Saville row, get measured, go back 2-3 times for trial fittings, pay more than ten times the price (travel not included) and get your new suit - whenever.

Likewise, you can go to Rota and get your new cast 17" Fuchs-like wheels (albeit, no 11" width) in almost no time for $1,200.00.

Or. you can go to Zuffenhaus, get light-weight, forged wheels with the "right" look, pay about three times as much and get your wheels - whenever.

Of course, we all know there are in-betweens. But, if you want bespoke, you pay for it and you wait. Get over it. Sure, they could communicate better. But, as far as I can determine, no one has lost their money and there have been virtually no problems with the wheels. And those that have surfaced were fixed.

As mentioned above, I went with CCW and got them in two weeks and have been happily auto-crossing on them since. I got them when the now-Zuff wheels were just a gleam in Jeff Alton's eye and I could see they would take a while. I chose not to wait.

Would I order the Zuff wheels now? Sure, when I have the money free and don't need them any time soon. Why? Because they are simply the best 17" Fuchs-like wheels out there. In the mean-time, I may well buy a set of Rotas for street use.

No affiliation, except I'd love a set of Zuffenhaus in 9 & 11 for the Turbo offset.

Now back to your regularly scheduled carping.;)

I dont think anyone would tolerate a 52 week Savile Row suit, especially if it was sold as a 12 week suit. Communication and customer service is as much a part of a quality product as the product is.

In any case, the wheels are beautiful and from the people who own them, the quality is great. I'd wonder if annual or bi-annual group buy production runs would help things. Take a signup sheet and when the reach 10 names (or whatever # makes the run feasible) and when it reaches that number, go ahead with production. I'm not sure if this would increase productivity if there are many different offset and size combinations. They might see demand increase as buyers would encourage others to join so that the minimum is met. They could also use make a few extra to keep in inventory and sell at a slightly higher price to someone who wants them "right now" down the road.

In any case, Id love a set of these wheels :D

I am a "cheerleader" in the sense that the product on my car is a complete joy. As one of the original few sets I didn't have any of these wait time/communication issues so I can't comment on that at all. The early problems I had with them were fixed competently. I will gladly continue to cheer because my experience has been great. Other's results may vary.

If you acted like this when you called, I'd not return your calls either.