Trying to wake a 1972 911T

[JEFFR]

I am new to this forum. I have a 1972 911T Targa (engine rebuilt to S specs) that has been sitting for about 10 years. Trying to start, engine cranks but won't fire? Where would the first place to look at? Points, plugs, wire set, coil???

Thanks,
Jeff

[Eddyvdw]

Make sure the cold start valve works. If not, by pass the solenoid direct activating the valve (on top of fuel filter) for 5-10 sec. Assume the car is a MFI.
Ed

[daniel911T]

I stronlgy doubt it's sleep paralysis. spammers....grrr.

I don't know what of this you have already done, so please don't think I'm trying to insult your intellegence.

The fuel and oil break down with time, especially the fuel. Trying to run that nasty old stuff, even if you added new stuff on top of it, can completely clog your injectors and filter. The oil gets thick and tar-like as it gets old and won't lubricate adequately, it must go.

First: Drain your old gas, and if you know how, purge your engine's fuel system. Give it at least 5 gal of new premium.
Second: Change fuel filter.
Third: Change your oil and oil filter.
Fourth: Change your points and reset the gap. Points frequently corrode when left to sit. This is a great time to install a Pertronix if you feel so inclined.
Fifth (optional): I strongly recommend changing cap, rotor, and spark plugs. Take a very close look at the plug wires, they can get brittle with age.
Sixth: Make sure you have at least 12v from the battery. It can drop low pretty quickly with a bunch of cranking.

You can expect it to still be pretty hard to start. There is nasty old fuel, which does get gummy, in the injectors (if your injected) or carbs.

A great way to tell if you have a fuel problem or a spark problem is starter fluid. Give it a good snort of the stuff and see if the engine pops. If it does, then you have fuel issues. If you have nothing, even with starter fluid, then you probably have a spark issue.

Of course, take some voltage readings if you still have trouble. I've had a coil die from sitting too long. If you have a CDI box still installed, corrosion may have attacked it, definitely confirm that the right power is going in and out.

Word of caution, watch how long you crank it for. Greater minds will know more than me, but I would suggest 30 second crank, 1 minute cooldown, x3, then give it at least 5 mins to cool down. Our starters are fragile. It would wreck your whole day if your starter melted down after all the other stuff!

Good luck! I hope this helps!

Dan

[daniel911T]

Originally Posted by KEITH.MAX

I'm not sure if yours is the same thing as what I'm thinking....but, maybe it is sleep paralysis. I know with sleep paralysis, you can open your eyes if you try really hard, and can see, but you cannot move any part of your body.

Fu****g spammers. Please flag this guy. More flags, quicker the spammer is banned.

Dan

[Eddyvdw]

+1 for all the filter changes etc. But you'll know if the engine works if you manage to get some (fresh) fuel in the air intakes via the cold start valve. The car will start and run for a bit if spark and compression is ok.
Ed

[RSTarga]

I'm always surprised at how people expect a car that has sat for a long period of time to just spark into action. STOP... If you don't want to destroy your engine due to impatience, do everything Dan says above plus flush out gas tank clean fuel filter at tank. Pull plugs and spray some Marvel Mystery oil in there and crank the engine without plugs after the oil.
Change all oils as above, fresh fuel, plugs, points, ( would hold off on the pertronics until you are sure it will run), crank until oil press comes up, then go for it and see if it starts. If it is an MFI I would probably get it rebuilt. Make sure and change brake hoses and rubber fuel lines before you try and actually drive it.

[tharbert]

Welcome to the forum!

Dan makes some very good points. I would especially heed to fuel suggestions. When restarting my 72, I used aviation gas.

It would help if you posted a little more information about the car either in your Garage section or here in this thread. As you hinted that the engine has been reworked to some degree, we need to know exactly what you have. The 72 came with a 2.4L with mechaical fuel injection (MFI). Does it still have the MFI set-up? For example, the cold start solenoid Ed mentioned is part of MFI but not used with carbs.

If you are unsure, posting a few pictures of the engine bay together with a couple shots of the exterior will help a lot.

Another suggestion? There have been many folks in your same position...restarting a long dormant 911. One of the best features of this forum is the search function. There are some GREAT threads dealing with this issue. Start reading...

[Eddyvdw]

Must admit, my car slept for 17 years and had to do all above to start the engine. Expect lots of smoke (warn your neighbours). Good luck.
Ed

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

Pull plugs and spray some Marvel Mystery oil in there and crank the engine without plugs after the oil.

I think RSTarga is saying after the oil is changed. I would spin the engine w/o plugs until you see some oil pressure register. Don't know if this works in a 911 but I have done it on other cars and the needle will bounce a little.

Also watched "Chasing Classic Cars" last night and they started a 73 Dino after 15 years of storage in an outside shed and acorn shells shot out of the exhaust. Be wary of mice infestation under the engine shroud.

[Peter Zimmermann]

If the gas tank was full when the car was last shut off, that's good (prevents moisture from forming on the inside of the tank). Drain old fuel, remove and boil out the tank (if necessary), install, replace all lower flexible fuel hoses, fill and start.

If the tank was half full when parked, drain remaining fuel, remove tank and have it boiled out - it'll be rusty inside. Depending on the amount of rust you will have to devise a way to roto-rooter your fuel lines in the tunnel to make sure that they're not filled with rust. As above, replace all lower flexible hoses, and blow compressed air through the tunnel lines (disconnected at both ends) to make sure they are clear.

If the fuel work has already been done, and the car still has MFI, check the drive belt to the F.I. pump. It might have rotted and broke when you initially cranked the engine.

I don't envy you, you could be facing a huge project depending on how the car was stored.

Oh, once it's running replace the tires (they will be "square"), the brake hoses, and flush the brake system (maybe a new master cylinder won't hurt either).

[daniel911T]

+1 on getting oil pressure.


Before you actually try to get it to pop, disconnect the coil or remove the rotor and crank it until you see positive oil pressure. Statement of the obvious, but this should come after the oil change.

I hadn't thought of doing it with the plugs out, but I think it sounds like a great idea. No reason to work the starter hard when you're just trying to spin the motor.

Word of caution: make sure the area around the spark plugs is clean before you start cranking. You don't want to suck in any dead mice, or acorns or anything.

To agree with another above post, I just woke a motor that had been sleeping for a good long while: it coughed and sputtered and smoked from EVERYWHERE. Mine was billowing smoke for almost 15 minutes! It was coming from the bottom of the motor, from around the transmission (old crap burning off in the heat exchangers) and of course out the tailpipe. It will be awful. Expect it. It's fine so long as it stops after it's been at operating temp for 10ish minutes, and isn't accompnied by any terrifying noises.

I bet once you've had it running for an hour or so it will almost be it's old self.

Be very nice to it until it's warm and mostly done smoking.

Good luck!

-Dan

[RSTarga]

It would also be a very good idea to remove the fan and alternator to make sure you don't have any mice nests as these can cause fire and definetly overheat your engine.

[356RS]

I hope this never happens to anyone else but it's possible. I think this was more than just mice! 10 years of storage did this to a friends car.

[daniel911T]

I had a friend complain that one of her home speakers didn't sound right. As I had built them, I figured I should take a look. It was pretty much the same picture as what was under that 911 engine shroud! The little bugger had chewed through a speaker wire while it was in there.

A few minutes with a vacuum and a drop of solder, all was right with the world.

Sort of off topic I guess, but it just brought back a memory...

Dan

[RWebb]

replace the Points, plugs, & check compression while plugs are out

use ohmeter on ignition wire set, coil

you now have some known good things to NOT worry about that day or for some time if it does run

then drain ALL fuel from tank and look around at the fuel lines - ensure they are in good shape; I'd replace all of them & fuel filter too

drain/replace engine oil - now

Then... try to start it again with new fuel.

[JEFFR]

Thanks, for the good advice. I changed the fuel filter but did not drain the gas tank or change the oil. i guess i was just anxious to see if it would fire up before I spend to much time and money. I am also stripping the interior out to restore. There was some rust from water leaking in the targa top from sitting outside.

Jeff

[Flieger]

Definately change the oil and fuel. If the fuel tank has gotten rusty or the fuel has sediment settled out in it, it can clog the lines and stall the engine.

[Joe Bob]

Check for spark. Pull a plug wire, put a new plug in, ground the plug. Have someone turn the key with a fresh charged battery. Listen for the CDI box to whine....listen for fuel pump. Look for a FAT spark when cranking.

Got a GOOD repair manual?

Watch for spark, spark is a good thing.

Report back.....

No spark, suspect the CDI box or other issues in the switched power circuit.

Spark means bad fuel, bad plugs or your ex wife has hexed you.....

[daniel911T]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

... or your ex wife has hexed you.....

I HATE it when that happens!

Dan

[zippy_gg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bob View Post
... or your ex wife has hexed you.....

Originally Posted by daniel911T

I HATE it when that happens!

Dan

Tell me about that... I have not one but two of them!
The good news is the "ex" part of it!