Steering Wheel ROTARY Slop

[DRACO A5OG]

Hey Fellas,

Ever since I upgraded to Turbo Tie Rod Ends installed by a wrench 3 years ago. I've developed a slight rotary slop, left to right 5-10 MM, tires do not move, like something is loose.

Tie Rods are tight.

After an alignment and corner balancing a year ago, I complained about the slop and the alignment shop tightened the U joints on the steering column, it helped but did not get rid of the left to right slop.

At speed she is fine but parked I can jiggle the steering wheel left to right, feeling like something is loose.

I recently, fixed my loose turn signal switch and moded the hi-beam switch. Luckily the bushing is intact and functioning properly ( so far ).

Question: Is there more than two U joints on the steering assembly or do I need to look at the lower section in the pic items: 18-21?



Will I need to remove my Stone Guard to access the steering rack?

Jim

[slodave]

Yes.

[DRACO A5OG]

Thanks Dave, I was afraid of that.

[slodave]

Four bolts and the tray is gone. It's just heavier than it looks.

[DRACO A5OG]

I hate aligning the damn sway bar to the retaining bolts. :-(

Oh well, got to get her done.

[slodave]

When are you going to come down and AX with us?

[DRACO A5OG]

when and where?

Last one I went to was a POC event, Patrick Brass and Steve Wong were there.

[slodave]

It's getting late for the next one. Feb 13. Reg closes Tuesday...

PCA - Orange Coast Region

[DRACO A5OG]

Found the culprit, it is both upper and lower Steering U-joints

Click Pic to Hear Slop


Jim

[slodave]

Great! Get it fixed and come out March 13th... Enough posting, get driving!

[DRACO A5OG]

Roger That!

[Grady Clay]

Jim,

Congratulations finding the problem.

Exactly what was the issue?
Were the U-joints themselves failing?
How were they loose? In the needle bearings?
Were the U-joints tight on the splines?
If not were the splines damaged? (Both internal and external?)
Are all four of the ‘safety pins’ still good?

What was the condition of the rubber ‘doughnut’?
Were the attachments tight and lock-tabs in place?

Was the ‘flange’ on the steering rack tight on the splined shaft?
Dave @ TRE’s adventure:
Clunk in steering? Here is a possibility


What other prior work was done involving the U-joints?
When the U-joints were ‘tightened’, was anything else noticed?
Has there ever been an accident involving the front suspension or steering?

These U-joints are VERY robust.
I don’t think I have ever seen one fail on it’s own.

This is such a critical system in a 911, every detail needs considering.

Best,
Grady

[john walker's workshop]

i recently replaced a pair of those early design u-joints with the later beefier type due to lumpyness and some slop in one of them.

another thing that happens, luckily it's rare, is the two bolt flange which attaches to the steering rack pinion by one nut can get loose. it's kept from turning by interlocking serrations at the mating surfaces, as long as the nut is tight. if the u-joints don't appear to have any slop and you can feel a bit of slop at the steering wheel, it's worth a look. had a car a few years ago that lost it's steering due to this.

[JFairman]

don't know if this the type you're looking for, but I have this one.
i can't feel any slop or play in it.

[Grady Clay]

John,

That is exactly the issue Dave @ TRE had.
(Link above)

This would be a good time and place to post images of all the different U-joints.
Where (what year-model) is the limit of interchangability?

I'm generally in favor of using later / newer parts except when the 'bean counters' have had a hand in making something 'cheaper' not 'better'.
Does this apply to U-joints?

Best,
Grady

[DRACO A5OG]

Hey Grady,

Accidents, Definitely yes, by P/O at least twice from what I can tell.

Well funny thing Dave is the one that upgraded me with some Turbo Tie Rods. I check the connection from the lower U-joint to the rack and all was tight. Sorry Dave for doughting your work

Unlike Dave's situation, mine was tight on turns and no slop at all until I drive straight then I wiggle the steering wheel but still tracking straight then the slop occurs, almost like something was loose but nothing like a broken spline skipping which would be i.e. a clunk.

It was more like a cheap socket that fit loose on the ratchet wrench. Hope you can see the video above, that little slop would give me 5-7MM of slop at the steering wheel.

Johnson's Alignment torqued down the lower U-joint and it helped a bit but not much. Steve then told me I may need to torque down the upper U-joint. I put it off for a longtime because I knew I would have to take the fresh air system off and A/C to gain access to the lower allen bolts to remove the 2 U-joints and shaft

Any who, before I gorilla torqued the upper U-joint, I wanted to make sure the U-joints were not the culprits. Took 2 vise grips and held one to the shaft and the other to the U-joint end and wiggled. Well, wouldn't you know it, there was SLOP/PLAY.

Check the other one, that one too but not as much.

So Conclusion: FAILED U-Joints around 200K Miles on the Clock.

I just picked up some Sweet Manufacturing, USA 5/8" 36 Spline to 5/8" 36 Spline and see if they will function properly. The only thing was it is limited to 45 degree angle as opposed to the OEM at 90+ degree angle.

The only other choice was a China Made identical to OEM as far as angle but the bearings were not as smooth or firm, but cheap as dirt though.

I will post results shortly only if the 45 degree angle works because I will need to truck on back to get the china brand crap before they close.

Jim

[Flieger]

What do you mean 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees? The U-joints on a 911 are at an intermediate angle- I think 70 degrees to account for the compound angle between the rack input shaft and the steering wheel shaft. If you are changing that angle, then the steering will not have constant velocity- so a variable rate steering which will feel rather odd in an old 911 since it is not tuned like on a 997 or BMW.

[john walker's workshop]

you should find a complete good used u-joint shaft. lots of them out there. that way it would be stock and normal looking and fitting.

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by Flieger

What do you mean 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees? The U-joints on a 911 are at an intermediate angle- I think 70 degrees to account for the compound angle between the rack input shaft and the steering wheel shaft. If you are changing that angle, then the steering will not have constant velocity- so a variable rate steering which will feel rather odd in an old 911 since it is not tuned like on a 997 or BMW.

The damn USA made one though the bearing is quality, will not bend more than 34 degrees as opposed to PAG which will bend more than 90 degrees maybe 120???

Luckily the VW guys were very cool about returning it even though they were scuffed.

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

you should find a complete good used u-joint shaft. lots of them out there. that way it would be stock and normal looking and fitting.

You read my mind JW, after installing the crappy China Made aftermarket VW U-joint because the USA made one just would not function correctly, I found it to bind quite allot. UNACCEPTABLE.

Ordered a Known Good used one with intermediate shaft $90 and while I was in there, added a Good used rubber "donut" NLA mount, mine was really loose.

Will arrive Monday. Well, time to do all the other nick nacks.

Jim

Moral of the story, PORSCHE ONLY PARTS on all critical components

[DRACO A5OG]

Update:

Replaced OEM part ( casted U-joint ), Slop is gone, now to re-align the front