Concours question

[steveaiken]

I plan to go to my very first Porsche Parade this year in Savannah. I will be driving my 911SC which I have kept in very good shape over the past 30 years that I have owned her and driven her frequently.
I have never entered any sort of concours and don't know how my car might fair in an appropriate driver car/ restored catagory. There apparently is a restoration/touring class where a car is judged on appearance and orginality. In this class the car can be re-painted as mine is. So the idea is to do this for fun not expecting to win but perhaps being recognized.
So the questions;
How many awards to they give? How much is the cost to enter? Is it "silly" to even think my car would do well?
The car; Repainted the original color by "professionals" $4,000 job, interior has new leather Recaro seats and all interior panels/headliner/carpet changed to black from tan using good used Porsche parts, new dash (not leather), short shift kit, modern stereo, speedo changed to 150 mph version (although I do have the original 85mph one). Fuchs are original wide wheel package but fully refurbished by Wiedman with handpainted emblems. The engine is pure stock with tensioner upgrade and a modern rotary A/C compressor. The car overall is tight and straight having never been in any collision.
Comments, please

So thanks for the feedback and I must add that I think very highly of this forum. I have received very helpful advise here and I jump in to help where ever I can to help others.
Steve

[daniel911T]

One word:

PICTURES

[billh1963]

I'll be there. You a member of PCA? Registration opened yesterday. $30 is the fee for entering Concours.

From the PCA website:

Concours d'Elegance
In simple terms, a Concours is a car show. The idea is to show your car in its most perfect condition (usually cleanliness and like new condition.) In general, each car starts out perfect and as the judge finds something amiss, points are deducted. The cars typically displayed by category and trophies are awarded to the highest scores.


Types of Concours
There are different levels or types of Concours. The classifications are designed to accommodate various levels of commitment (both of time and finances), car usage, age, and originality. As a beginner you can enter your daily driver and learn a great deal about the history of that model and year while making it gleam like it hasn't since leaving the showroom. If you want to take it a little more seriously then there are categories in which the originality of the car is considered as well as every tiny nook and cranny of the undercarriage.

For the more serious competitors there is Full preparation. "Full" means every aspect of your car will be examined: interior, exterior, trunk, engine, and under chassis - front and rear. They'll look at everything, from your spare tools to the jack. Nothing will go untouched.

On the other end of the spectrum is the "Display Only" category for those that simply want to participate in the car show. The cars are there just to be displayed and are not usually eligible for any trophies.

In addition to Full and Display Only, other Concours judging categories include: Touring (Street), Preservation, Top Only or Serious, Closed, People's Choice, and Judge's Choice.

G-11.2. Concours Awards
In addition to the class awards, the following overall
awards will be presented:
(a) Four Concours d’Elegance Group Awards:
• Restoration Group Award
• Preservation Group Award
• Preparation Group Award
• Performance Group Award

[steveaiken]

Yes, I am PCA member
I have been the proud owner of 3 each 911's over the past 40 years, a '67, '73 and the current '80

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by steveaiken

Yes, I am PCA member...

I have been the proud owner of 3 each 911's over the past 40 years, a '67, '73 and the current '80

Damn that SC is nice... Just needs a super detail.

[widgeon13]

Good luck, a lot of work for no reward!

With the wacko's in PCA, my guess a repaint and non-original upholstery will do you in.

I would just attend if you want and enjoy the experience otherwise you need to do a lot of work and what do you get out of it? Buy stock in q-tips.

[sc_rufctr]

BTW... A super detail is about 80 hours of work.

That's actual work... Not sitting around having a beer in the garage. (no joke)

[cbush]

Beautiful car.

The point of the concours for most of us is to have fun and show off the car. I have entered quite a few and judged some. Sometimes I get a little trophy, mostly not. But I always enjoy showing off the car, visiting with other folks showing off their cars, and learning from the judges.
The parade is a very competitive concours. Most people who have entered have participated in many local and regional concours events so they know what to expect. But not all! Just don't feel bad if you don't win your first time out. Kind of like showing up for the Olympics, and trying the high jump for the first time.

Given the class you are entering in, paint should not be an issue. Seats may or may not be an issue. You are just as likely to lose points for dirt in the seams of the seats as you are for having different seats. Remember, the judges are trying to differentiate between a bunch of almost perfect cars. I saw a beautiful car in the Charlotte parade lose points because tip if the Porsche crest was not aligned with the valve stem.

I like entering Concours because it really motivates me to get my car clean--really clean--top to bottom. Some folks just like entering events, have the car detailed by a local shop, and then just show up for the fun. If you are more serious about it, and if you know some of the concours judges in your region, see if you can get one to stop by and give you some tips. Or ask you local PCA officer to link you up with one--they would love to help you!

Congrats on going to your first Parade- you should have a blast. Enter as many events as you can, and volunteer as much as you can. Volunteering to support events is almost as fun as being in them!

[widgeon13]

I don't have anything against concours, perhaps it's the pompous judges and some of their offhanded comments if you are standing around listening. I've been to a few in the past (Lake Placid) and a few others I have blocked from my memory. To listen to the judges you would think it was a matter of life or death, no wait, they think it's more important than that.

Some of the owners pay people big bucks to change every freakin nut and bolt on a car to make it better than new, to me that's BS. So in a lot of situations money buys a person the trophy. That's real life for you.

To me, it would be better if they just had "people's choice" in certain categories and let the man on the street make the decision.

I don't go to Parades, club racing is more my idea of fun.

I need another cup of coffee. I might be a little feisty this morning since it's 7:55 AM and I have just raced the rain to get 6" of new snow off my driveway before the rain arrives on top of the 3' that is already here. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[BlueWing]

Dropped my membership some time ago. I forgot but are these events open to the public?

And what dates are scheduled, if I'm in N.C. at that time I would go for the show.

Terry

[bkreigsr]

Is it possible to enter any local PCA 'show & shines' before you go to the parade? Doing the national highlight as your first event might prove to be a little discouraging. Enter a few locals and take in all the comments about your car and it's shortcomings from fellow owners who have been there, done that. There's a lot of concours haters on Pelican, so don't let them talk you out of it if that's what you want to do. My 77 is a track DE car but has not lost a concours event yet, including one 'best in show' at a zone event.
do it (80 hours is a conservative estimate)
and yes, the respray and upholstery will knock you down some
Bill K

[cbush]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Some of the owners pay people big bucks to change every freakin nut and bolt on a car to make it better than new, to me that's BS. So in a lot of situations money buys a person the trophy. That's real life for you.
B]

You are right to a point. That is why I just do it for fun. If I wanted to win, I would buy the perfect car, make it more perfect, and haul it around in a trailer only driving it on rare occasions. I suppose that would be fun to a point, but not my thing. People who do that tend to own multiple cars--some for the track, some for concours, and some for everyday driving.

There really is a lot to competing in concours- just look at the requirements for ones like Pebble Beach!

[NickP]

Several years ago I went to the West Coast Holiday in Colorado in a 356 that I had just finished restoring. It was beautiful, every nut and bolt was touched. I entered it in the event concours, but just the "people's choice" section. I was there to drive the car, not just wash it. Anyways, the winner of the Full Prep was a black on red 57 Speedster which was stunning and a well deserved winner to my untrained eye. I congratulated the owner and asked him lots of questions about his car. When I asked about how he liked driving the car he looked at me and said "I don't drive this
car, it's a concours car." What!! No driving, are you kidding, a beautiful black Speedster with red interior, what!!?? Really curious ( and naive ) I asked when he'd last "really driven" the car. His reply...6 years.

I completely understand and respect those who enjoy and participate in concours events as car ownership is many things to many people so whatever floats your boat. But I would have been driving that Speedster if it were mine....

[79 Euro]

I have entered my 79 SC in 11 PCA Concours events in the state of Texas. They are lots of fun and I'll be entered in at least 3 this year. However, I've never entered a Parade Concours. From what I hear, it's just too much work. My car is not exactly original either; seats have been replaced, probably had a paint job several years ago and the stereo has been changed.

Local events are great but I'll leave the Parade to the Professionals. Whatever you decide, good luck and enjoy your car.

You may want to check out PCA Zone 8 for Concour Judging and Prep tips.

[R K T]

I started out years ago in wash & shine in local PCA events. But....the bug bit, hard.
I brought a 55 356 Continental Outlaw back from the dead because the former owner had let it sit for 14 years. Once I started restoring it, it took control over everything! We decided after going to such a level of restoration that we might as well show it before we drove it.
We went FULL Concours at the Ft Worth Parade in Performance Modified Class. My wife and I cleaned for month....everyday. She went through a thousand q-tips on the under carriage alone. I took care of the top side. We won 1st place in our Class and then was judged again for Division. We took a 1st in Division also.
When we started in W&S, it was fun and really a social thing to hang out with friends at the Concours. At Parade level, it was no longer fun. Parade Concours is incredibly competitive.
It will be fun as long as you realize the chances of winning are tough. When you think your car is clean.....clean it again....and again. The judges will still find things, lots of things.
Not trying to discourage you, even though it may sound like it. Just have fun!

[steveaiken]

Excellent comments and feedback from all of you, thank you very much. I think I will pass on entering the car in the concours, sounds like more cleaning than I want to do plus I like to drive the car a lot and the car likes to be driven. I think they have a just "display your car" mode which is not judged and maybe that would be a good thing. I will go have fun, absorb the experience, volunteering sounds like a good idea and check out Savannah. It is supposed to be a pretty cool place.
Thanks again y'all

[mholbrook38]

You will have the most fun in the Display Only category. No pressure and just have a great time. All that cleaning and standing around worrying about some little detail you mght have missed will ruin your trip. Just go have a ball. I'm so jealous but from Idaho, it is a pretty long haul. Maybe in a year or two there will be something closer to home.

[GH85Carrera]

I will be there. I will drive my 911 and have fun. I will not enter the Concours, just the autocross & the DE on Saturday.

[R K T]

I'll add this to my previous post.....
After going FULL Concours and winning, we now go "DISPLAY"!
My car's are always clean, but now I clean them for ME, not some Judge. And I'm also a Judge. It can be very frustrating to be judged by someone that knows less than you do about Porsches!
At Concours Judging certification class, I asked the Head Judges a question....Do you judge a car on it's own individual merit, OR do you judge a car against the other cars in the class? The two Judges disagreed! They almost started arguing in front of the class!
Just proves that Judges don't know everything. And, there can be blatant favoritism. Judges have been known to award the trophy to a car that was clearly not the best, but the owner was a friend of the Judge. At Parade level, this shouldn't happen, but it does....ask me how I know!

[vracer]

[QUOTE=R K T;5893216...ask me how I know![/QUOTE]

Asking.