is my car safe?

[lp997]

I recently had a TCS failure on my 997 Gen 1. It caused one side of the rear brakes to be applied suddenly. It was addressed by Porsche. My question: How do I know my car is safe to drive?

[widgeon13]

OK, what is a TCS failure?

[ivangene]

did Porsche give it back to you? then its safe

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by ivangene

did Porsche give it back to you? then its safe

If not the lawsuit will pay for your next 2 Porsches.
(Forgot to check if he was in California... )

[lp997]

The traction control failure occurred after having my car serviced by Porsche, so the fact that they say it is safe is not totally reassuring. I like the lawsuit idea if my family is still alive to enjoy the benefits. Anyone want to volunteer to test the system for me?

[euro911sc]

TCS=Traction Control System

Your car sux... I'll take it off your hands

In all seriousness, even safety systems fail on occasion. This is not something I have heard of before so no trend setting is happening. If they gave it back to you its safe until the next failure Could have happened to anyone in any car. Could have been a lot worse too, but it sounds like you lived to tell about it. Keep it in the back of your head and if it happens again then you have some ammunition to hammer them with. For now, drive and be happy.

-Michael

[JeremyD]

Not very reassuring - rear brake lock up - one side would make for some interesting rides. Did they replace the driver's seat too or were they able to get the stain out?

[euro911sc]

I'll test it! There is nice track day coming up somewhere close by I'm sure

[Grady Clay]

SO….
Exactly what happens when the TCS errantly applies one rear brake?

I can just imagine the 911 spinning out of control into oncoming 80,000# truck traffic or off a cliff.

What did Porsche say caused this?
Has this happened before or since to other’s 911s?
What 911s have TCS? Are they all the same?

Best,
Grady

[GH85Carrera]

One thing for sure is the TSC in my 85 Carrera has never had a malfunction. The ABS, and water pump are failure proof in my car.

[DRACO A5OG]

Did they say it was "safe" in writing or in front of witnesses? Verbal, is worthless and plus you must prove over 51% that it was totally their fault, and not your counties responsibilities for the maintenance of the road you were on, Acts of God and worse yet try to place the blame on you, Yes their insurance company will totally blame others and you and take over 2 years to do this.

Have an Known Respected Independent Shop Look at it. It's your life and possibly life of others, you decide.

[ivangene]

LOL - but that waterpump timing belt is a son of a biach to replace

I would have no issue testing it for you..find a parking lot and have some fun (safely)

[porschenut]

The TCS being discussed here is, I assume, PSM Porsche Stability Management. I had a 997.1 and this is the only traction control I am aware of.

There's no way to ever know if your car is "safe". If the fault occurred once, it can happen again. Or some other system may fail.

This is one of those times that remind me of how much I HATE the concept of cars being controlled by "smart" computers. Too much sophistication is just asking for trouble.

By far, the most effective way to make cars safer is to train the f'ing drivers how to use them, not to use technology to compensate for non-existent driver education and risky behavior.

[jurhip]

This is one of those times that remind me of how much I HATE the concept of cars being controlled by "smart" computers. Too much sophistication is just asking for trouble.

Although I don't like computer control systems, like traction control, that cannot be shut-off, I disagree with the comment above.

Purely mechanical systems fail. Many people have had brakes lock up in cars with no "control" systems. So, what should we do? Go back to a stick against the wheel? Electronic systems offer the possibility of redundancy and testability that cannot be easily achieved with a mechanical system. They may be harder for a lay person to work on and understand, but they offer many many benefits in safety and function.

The argument is similar to those that raged on in the 70's when FI became more popular. Just because its hard for one person to work on or understand, doesn't mean its poor tech.

By far, the most effective way to make cars safer is to train the f'ing drivers how to use them, not to use technology to compensate for non-existent driver education and risky behavior.

By far the most effective way would be to train drivers and use technology to help in instances where human reaction times and skill cannot.

[jurhip]

To the OP:

Ask what the initiating cause fo the TCS failure was. If they fixed something, they are required to tell you. These are not black box systems. They have inputs and logic based outputs. A bad sensor, bad component, or faulty logic could have all caused a failure.

If something was changed/fixed, ask why they think it went bad (corrosion, mech. damage, electrical fault). All these things will help you determine how the fault occurred and the liklihood of it happening again.

Without this information, neither you or anybody on this board can tell you if your car is now OK.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

Not very reassuring - rear brake lock up - one side would make for some interesting rides. Did they replace the driver's seat too or were they able to get the stain out?

lol

[lp997]

Thanks for all of the interesting feedback. I was feeling depressed about this issue (these cars are such a personal part of our lives). All the comments helped me feel better. Because the 911 that is the topic of this issue is a low production car, I did not want to elaborate too much on the model but hint, it has four hundred fifteen horsepower. Thanks to all the brave souls who volunteered to be test crash assistants. Braver than me. I think I'll do the parking lot tour around the mall early Sunday morning.

Fortunately, this did not happen on the track at high speed so the seat is still clean . It happened when I was just accelerating from a stop. I must have an angel on my shoulder! Now I need to rebuild confidence in this track machine. In the mean time I bought another track car, so I am still getting my monthly adrenaline fix.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by jurhip

To the OP:

Ask what the initiating cause fo the TCS failure was. If they fixed something, they are required to tell you. These are not black box systems. They have inputs and logic based outputs. A bad sensor, bad component, or faulty logic could have all caused a failure.

If something was changed/fixed, ask why they think it went bad (corrosion, mech. damage, electrical fault). All these things will help you determine how the fault occurred and the liklihood of it happening again.

Without this information, neither you or anybody on this board can tell you if your car is now OK.

Yes, a good root cause failure analysis report would be nice, if one is generated (not likely) you will not be able to get a copy and they will not inform the people at the dealership of the details, doesn't hurt to ask but that's my guess. This opinion is from considerable experience with companies located in Europe related to electronic RCA's.

[eastbay]

This has been an issue with late model Corvettes also, random applications of traction control sending the car out of control. Might want to poke around on the Corvette boards for more info.

[jurhip]

Originally Posted by hcoles

Yes, a good root cause failure analysis report would be nice, if one is generated (not likely) you will not be able to get a copy and they will not inform the people at the dealership of the details, doesn't hurt to ask but that's my guess. This opinion is from considerable experience with companies located in Europe related to electronic RCA's.

I agree, one wouldn't get an RCFA on a safety system failure. But, by law, an auto repair center has to tell you what they found and fixed. You may not get the whole story, but if they replaced say an ABS sensing ring, it is your right to receive the faulty part. They cannot throw it away if you ask for it.

Sounds like its too late though.