'bout 225.

Starting up 911 A/C PFC production again
 

Been extremely busy, just returned from a couple of months working on a Super Yacht in Europe France & Italy in the Mediterranean. Cote d'Azur; had to temporarily put all my 911 PFC new prototype projects on hold as well as existing PFC design production

It's okay, he break was rather enjoyable....

I have "style B" markings on my oil temp gauge and am in the same part of the country as Josh, so outside temps are the same. But my car has been changed over to RS mods so I have a huge Setrab oil cooler in the nose along with the stock front fender oil cooler. That said, the 3.6 engine does not have a engine mounted oil cooler so extra cooling is needed.

My car runs at 194f all the time even when its really hot outside. Turning the A/C on brings it up to about 215f but thats about it.

I also work with airplanes, so air-cooled engines are my forte. You WANT your oil temps to be at or above 100c/212f so that it gets good and hot and also boils the moisture out of the oil. One thing is that if the oil temp gauge is showing 194, the oil temp at several areas in the system are well above this point, so you want the oil temps to be in this ballpark for long life of the engine and oil.

Any good oil will go 230-240 degrees with no issues. Anything above this temp and IMHO you should turn the A/C off and let the oil temps cool down.

Might want to look at our very own Chuck Moreland's page on oil temps located here: ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Oil Temperature and Engine Life

I recently bought an IR thermometer to double check. After a typical drive home in the heat of the day (105*-110* ambient) running the A/C, I was reading 220* at the temp sender.

And what did the gauge say? How close was it to the temp of the sender?

I'd guess maybe 3/16" above the white mark. If 200* is the needle just above the white mark, than I think the sender/guage are pretty close to what the IR therm read.

Josh -- the first white hash mark above the white block on the bottom (Style B) is 90C/194F. That's the mark you're referring to, yes?

To clarify, 3/16" above the white line/block equaled 220 deg on the IR thermometer pointed at and around the temp sender.

July hottest month on record in U.S.
 

July was the hottest month in the contiguous United States since record-keeping began in 1895, government scientists have said, a trend that meteorologists attribute to climate change.

hows your 911 a/c working in the hotter parts of the USA?

Excellent points. I think the water-cooled experience of most folks has them generally thinking that 180* is ideal and 210 is overheating. Not with these cars.

Just fine actually. If I manage to get covered parking at work, I have a cool cabin within minutes on my drive home. If it's been sitting in the sun and gets heat soaked, it's more like 15 minutes until it's comfortable.

Regarding engine oil temps, as long as I drive reasonable and don't drive to redline in 1st and 2nd gears like I do in the morning :D , my temps in the heat of the day stay below 225*. This I can live with.

Here's how I mounted my condensor in my new FG ducktail:

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...asyover/c2.jpg

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...asyover/c3.jpg

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...asyover/c4.jpg

At up to about 250 F OIL temps should be safe on your air cooled 911, but just above 250 F your oil probably will just start to slowly breaking down if ran for extended periods of time; personally I get Nervous above 250
Note: I have a lot of experience running my 911 with A/C for more than 20 years usually without a front oil cooler and over the years I have exceeded 250 several times without any damage. Regardless I get nerviouse above 250 F in stop and go traffic and extended idling in Summer


temps written about between 187=200 or so are for water cooled engines and the radiator water should be thermostatically controlled to normally be no more then 187 F at most; most of these thermostats for auto radiator water temps are designed to maintain 180-185 F max; some diesel engines water thermostats run a few degrees higher i.e. 187 max; Note the water jackets on a water cooled car running water temp at i.e. 185 F, the oil in the oil pan is hotter often someplace in the lower 200s F

I may be a little off but normal operating temp for water cooled engines is around 200-230 as well. The 180* thermostat opens at this temp, but not before, much like the oil thermostats for air-cooled motors to not allow cooling of the liquid be it oil or water until it reaches proper operating temp--not because the therm rating is the operating temp.

Josh it looks like you are making your rear condenser install look nicer

You will need more surface area in your rear PFC, To be honest yours is just not big enough to get your temps down quicker and lower for what you really need!
My cabin temps drop from when the car is sitting parked sitting in the sun at about 93 ambient and I step inside and the cabin is 150 plus +++ and I drive about 1/4 to 1/2 a mile or so (just a few blocks) in only a few minutes and the cabin starts to cool good with low 30s vent temps. but i have not been monitoring cabin temp
only vent temps.

I say this from my personal experience trying the same PFC you have and are using, after tweaking it everyway possible; because I was not happy using the same PFC you have is why I got angry and custom designed and made my own; which is designed to use every possible square inch/milimeter of the full intake air opening; and then because I still wanted colder and faster cabin temp drops I designed my front PFC and made it even larger then Behr/Porsche did then I changed the front fan blower and this made it fairly easy to get constant low 30's vent temps. I did a ton of testing to say the least before I was happy with my designes.

This picture is a new front and rear PFC matched set I just finished, I made this picture yesterday

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344737943.jpg

Josh D are you running the stock OEM tube and fin front condenser with your newer rear deck lid PFC?

Yes. And I wish I would have replaced it when I did the upgrade. When I removed it to clean it, a lot of the fins were brittle enough to desintigrate in my hands.

It will be replaced down the road.

Apples to oranges. I'm dealing with much higher ambient temps (110*+) than 93*. You would need more condenser area as well to get the performance you describe. My A/C works very well up to 105*. Beyond that, I need more condenser. At some point, I'll upgrade the front condenser, but I'm not interested in adding the weight or complexity of fender condensers and fans, even if it improved my A/C at temps above 105*.

get a Kuehl front condenser and call it a day. Quality is second to none... less than $300.

Kuehl Equipment...
 

+1... Plus, Griff stands behind his products.

That's the plan. I have about 6 more weeks of ridiculous heat and then I can focus on things like getting the duck tail painted, drop/clean/seal engine, and a few other projects. Anymore A/C work will be done next spring.SmileWavy

The picture and condensors in the photo look nice but the important part is, when will you have any to SHIP in quanities more than one or two?

You and I have done a lot of private emails and last one I remember I was going to do some "Beta testing" for you to see how the product works here in the hottest state in the country. BTW last week we set records three days in a row, 113-116 for a high temp and the lows that evening/next morning were never below 93, so we never cooled down. Would have been the perfect time to show how well the system worked but...

I finally gave up and ordered a new front condensor and evap unit (along with the upgraded fan) from Griffiths because his parts were available TODAY. This was back in June and temps here in Arizona were getting high and I simply could not wait another 2-4 months for parts. I needed to drive the car, not wait while parts were still "being worked on" and not available.

This thread started 15 months ago and we are still not seeing new PFC units being shipped out from the original poster on a regular basis. I still need a rear condensor (am using the stock 1985 model right now and its working, just not great) but how long is this going to take?

Reid, please, either lets get some of these better condensors out for the guys in the field who need them or stop stringing us along. We need "parts in hand today" and not "look what I just built" while having only one or two units to show to everyone. We have almost 600 posts and almost 34,000 views on this thread and 15 months later and not one person out in the field that has posted here saying how great the new condensors are...

Joe A

He isn't selling anything. Remember? LOL

DOH; I DID NOT MEET JOE HERE WE HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT BEFORE I EVER POSTED ANYTHING HERE AT PELICAN!!!

Brad find someplace else to be stupid and disrespectful with your BS

You say that like it means something.

Joe's point applies to the wider audience. If you and Joe have business going on, then why don't you take it off PP so that the business can't be commented upon by folks who might happen by the thread? You realize that this is a public forum and anyone can post, right?

Someone else should produce them
 

Should get an existing manufacturer to produce them. All the relevant info is in this post. Would be fairly straight forward IMO.

Reid: At some point, you have to put up or shut up. It's been well over a year that you've been touting your product, and now two summers have gone by yet there are no condensers in the field. My suggestion is to get some units out in the field within the next few months so they can be given "real world" testing. At that point, the benefits you tout will either be proven or disproven. And, given the time of year, you might have to ship some down to Australia to take advantage of the upcoming summer there.

Enough talk. Let's see if the condensers live up to the hype!

I think there might be some legal issues there. I like the rest of you am getting a bit tired of waiting for these. I think I will end up going with retroair at least they offer a multi-flow condenser.


Porsche Air Conditioning Upgrade & Full Kits

You are right Reid. I think Ill go drive my car with my 40 degree vent temps in my 95 degree ambients with my Keuhl high quality griffiths components installed... while everyone else waits two years for you to decide if you are selling something...

Scott,

Totally agree! I talked with Reid about "beta testing" his condensors and was ready for a long time, yet could never get anything "in my hands." Granted I travel for a living and so does he but over this amount of time something could have been sent out so I could have given it a "desert try-out" for him.

Finally gave up and got a Griffiths front condensor and evap unit in June just to survive the summer.

Here we are in the LAST week of August and still nothing in our hands to try or test. Bolting the stuff on one or two car's in Florida is a start, but he needs to get several units out around the country so that owners can report back.

On the other hand, if he is really not looking to sell them they why spend the time and trouble making these early units? For his or friends cars... ok but say so and tell everyone so that we can buy something that is available NOW so that we can drive the cars during summer.

Well Said.

+1 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/dom.gif
There's an old saying:"Put up or shut up". Obviously, Reid, you're doing neither......

In the end ... he is trying to benefit us :)

To tell the truth, I really wish that he would help us, but with all the smoke going around and never any product for anyone to test, its difficult to say.

Reid, please send some of the condensors to someone to try out and give everyone some feedback....

I don't know if he actually is trying to benefit "us". There are current solutions - and they can be all-in-one solutions so you don't have to shop at five different places to get what you need.

GTI sells good stuff, ships quickly and gives great customer service. Today.

Reid? I think this is all a big market study. He's trying to figure out if he can actually make these and sell at a profit, while doing some salesmanship on PP.

even snake oil can be sold if its available. Reid may be onto something potentially good. but he is a terrible business man and continues to shoot himself in the foot over and over. doubt whether 95% of those that initially expressed interest would still be interested today, myself included. if anything he helped his competitors...

I have been following this tread and hoping to get some information on the condensors. Can anyone answer the following questions:
1) Does this condensor remove more heat than one from a company like Rennaire or Griffith's
2) Is the freon flow cooler when it leaves this condensor than one sold by other companies
3) If the answer is yes to either above question then how much more effiecent is this condensor
4) How much will the extra heat rejection cost
I want to make the AC in my 79 as effiecent as possible and if these condensors are going to do that I would like purchase them.

Is there a reason that other people are not building these since there is nothing I can see that is patentable here. Parallel flow micro channel radiators have been around for many years. I use them in battery packs and motors for our vehicle applications

If you're looking for hard numbers, you won't get any.

If you want cold AC, and you want it fast, call Charlie Griffiths. He'll get together a package that will work for you. The whole package, not just bits and pieces.

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No relation or financial interest, just a satisfied customer.