1. cost? for each component? as well as in the kit? What is included in your kit? For example, If I change my condenser, Ill also need a drier and expansion valve. Will you sell the drier or will you have a vendor you work with on that? It would be pointless to change a condenser and not change old leaky hoses and o-rings. I guanantee you Reid, if you sell a condener, and a user doesnt get the performance you are advertising, they WILL blame you and your condenser. That is why Griff and Rennaire sell kits and why they disacourage small incremental changes unless everything has been upgraded already. Good way to gain a poor (word of mouth) reputation... not to mention lawsuits and returns.

2. weight?

3. selling points over a well designed kit by Griff and Rennaire who have already proven 35 degree temps WITH 95 degree ambients and "OLD" technology. for anyone who has ice cold AC in a hot climate and has spent $$ why would they dump a working system? Just because its newer technology?

4. What problem are you trying to solve? Does your product solve that problem? Poor vent temps are not a problem... Griff already solved that. So what is the problem this addresses? Is it the Griff cost? Can you really make a product that will last 10 years, provide 35 degree vent temps, and charge the consumer less than $289?

5. Have you done a market study/analysis? How many pre 89 911's are registered today, how many have an aftermarket kit like Griff? How many of the owners have owned their car for over 5 years (they probably wouldnt spend the $$ if they havent spent it in the first 5 years). What is your breakeven point for production numbers? Assume a $300 price point.

6. Have you prepared a technical Q&A with ALL questions answered?

7. Filter vs No Filter? if you site a list of filters from 20 years ago that doesnt fit a car made after 1998, you lose credibility. If you site AC manufacturers and words like "every" and "all" when in fact 5 of the 6 top auto manufactures (Toyota, VW, Honda, Ford, Chrysler) use no such device, you lose credibility. In fact, the ONLY car manufacturer that actually uses a filter in a post 2005 car is GM.

8. Fans vs No Fans?

9. Proof of your products superiority? if you site research for Serpentine Vs Yours and it doesnt even compare Serpentine but rather tube and fin, you lose credibility.

10. Non-Barrier hose issue? you give us pictures of a chinese vacuum pump and just tell us to add refrigerant every year? Seriously? That is not a solution.

11. Engine temps. With Factory AC, With your AC. Same ambients/humidity. Side by side comaprison in 4-5 different climates.

12. What about that research you posted that is mixed at best against the original design and doesnt even apply to serpentine. Where is the Serpentine vs your product research? data? real world testing? side by side comparisons? We have NEVER seen it!

Absolutely not. On either count.

Gauging market interest is fundamental if you plan on making any kind of successful go. For any product.

This particular approach seems strange to me - I have never seen market research performed in this manner (if that is indeed what it is).

It would be insteresting to learn if this is really just market research, or if he's actually got real production planned. Aside from the actual technical questions, that is.

:rolleyes:

There is a well known exhaust manufacturer on this board that does their marketing by sending prototypes out to members, seems to have been very successful.

Thanks Douglas for your kind comments

I have been on the internet since 1986 before most people even knew it existed and participated in many discussion groups but I did not know the crap that is rampant here is normal fair until, recently when I tried to start a very technical tread here for something new and I had wanted to bring into some highly knowledge engineers & a/c techs and a few people with many years working on 911s.

In the first few days of trying to set this up after only making the new with a few posts saying what the tread would be about and was getting a group of highly knowledgeable people together to participate; tons of drive by idiots began posting nothing but crap posts and pictures trying to be funny before anything substantial was even posted and ruined it so I abandoned it

I have recently discovered some very new cutting edge extremely efficient PFC technology an engineering company has offered to make available to me for a new heat exchanger 911 a/c condenser besides what I have successfully engineered prototyped & very successfully tested that no one else has and I think due to my disgust and frustration from a few people here flaming me I am going to take this new information and discussion about it someplace else less toxic

There are a few people here unfortunately just do not get it; I am not an air conditioning company I am only an engineer working alone inventing new things with what I believe and know and can prove are better and newer ways to make things work BETTER than is currently available by others stuck in their ways using older technology

KelogGes, I don't think you realize that much of the "negativity" thrown your way has been self-generated. Your rhetoric regarding "old/obsolete technology" that many here buy and use to great success is highly offensive to those that develop, sell, buy and use these systems. Your often pompous attitudes toward anything other than your own creations beg for like responses!

Answer to the questions
 

I have designed a superb performance and extremely efficient 911 custom made parallel flow micro-channel condenser using state of the art technologies!


I am proud of what I have created and I strongly believe my PF’s are the best solution in the world for the owners of early model Porsche 911 A/C design condenser problem at this point in time, and I believe that in most owner climate situations in normal ambient temperatures all that is needed for excellent 911 a/c system cooling temps is only a front and rear PFC using state of the art technologies!

For a year here I have kept anything to do with the business of selling my PFC’s here out of any discussions and have been only discussing my progress with what I have designed!

I AM NOT AN AUTOMOTIVE AIR CONDITIONING COMPANY!!! I am the only person I know in the world who actually personally makes their own condensers!
There is no competitor that sells 911 condensers to my knowledge that does not have someone else make what they sell themself

I am only a simple marine engineer with what I believe and know is a much better new A/C idea, that has carefully developed designed engineered & very successfully tested a new technology type of condensers specifically designed for early model 911s.

I have yet to offer anything for sale at Pelican Parts or the general public and have only made my PFC’s locally available through Stokes Automotive in Fort Lauderdale and have more test demonstrations coming

I am not interested in mass sales! I want a one on one relationship with anyone who wants what I make, and I am not sure this can be done with Pelican parts?
There are several a/c system installation variables for the different early model 911s and my PFC’s will fit into them all with some minor installation adjustments.

Recently there have been several questions put to me here that Specifically relate to The Business OF Selling by a few people here who have no intension of buying anything and I am going to ignore these questions at this time and only answer what I think is appropriate to say!

The Cost for my matched set of PFC’s which also includes my custom made a/c filter in a matched PFC set configuration only, will be $350.00 for the front clip PFC and $450.00 the rear deck lid contour PFC for a total price of $850.00, plus shipping and insurance costs by either FedEx or UPS, and comes with a one year limited warranty.

Now that I have finally publically stated A FIRM PRICE here for my PFC’s I expect most people to seek other solutions, I know what I have after a lot of testing over the last year and I know what it can do!

FYI: If someone decides to buy a matched set of my PFC’s which includes a front PFC and contour rear deck lid I PFC and One custom made a/c system filter, I will offer a restricted 7 day money back guarantee if someone decides to return during the 7 day restricted period of time, and they will only be accepted back for refund less any shipping charges if there are absolutely no damage whatsoever!

I am realist what I have designed is not for everyone; IF I don’t have any sales from the users here at Pelican it’s OK with me, I have local sales on a one by one basis to happy clients.

I am not interested in anonymously just selling parts from a catalog to the masses

I only want happy customers! Therefore I want to personally interact with every single one of clients on a personal basis; to make sure they have a successful installation of my PFC’s on their particular 911!!!

Because I sincerely care about the satisfaction to any customer of anything I make; I will personally spend as much time as necessary assisting them in any way possible and furthermore directly answering any questions they may have before during and after installation , and also giving them excellent installation advice and assist their professionally qualified a/c installers do a proper job installing my PFC’s. As I am only supplying PF condensers and a filter that are basically simple to install and I have no control over the condition of their other a/c system components or other needs their 911 a/c system may have it will be the responsibility of the 911 owner to consult a local qualified a/c shop to assist them with the proper installation of my PFC’s, however again I will be extremely interested more than happy to help their local a/c repair shop in every way possible to help insure my PFC’s are installed to Porsche’s factory high standards to make their 911 a/c system cold

If you’re seriously interested in what I have created as an excellent solution to make your 911 cold let me know!

To the noise makers here this is "MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS"

One last question while we are here.
 

My car is a 1987 Carrera and I have been wanting to make the following change which involves the AC system.

I want to eliminate the fan belt from the second pulley to the ac compressor and at the same time go from a "vee" style fan belt to a cogged belt or a or a flat belt. There would only be one belt to drive the fan, engine , and ac compressor.

This change would changing the engine pulley, ac pulley and the fan pulley and the fan belt.

The reason for this change is because there would be less drag on a cogged belt syatem and would be less of a drag and by using aluminum pulleys the weight reduction on the motor would be good for some hp gain. What do you think?

Even worse, Reid thinks that somehow he is allowed to snipe and name-call, but should then invoke Wayne's post to shield himself. Since October, when I first became interested in what Reid was doing, he managed to alienate quite a few people. He lost me as a potenital customer when he started telling everyone that he wasn't selling anything. Well, thank goodness that particular untruth has finally been laid to rest. A firm price! After MONTHS of asking and evasions of "I'm not selling anything". LOL.

I would really have loved to see some actual technical discussion, instead of Reid's constant claims and self-promotion. Are there really any posts from him that don't include verbiage about how great he is?

I would, however, like to thank him for giving me the information and tools to select the proper upgrades for my Carrera. Sometimes, buying the latest and greatest means you'll be a beta tester for the product. When it comes to my Porsche, I prefer to not beta test.

I wish him luck in trying to sell his stuff, but I think after all I've seen that I'll continue to recommend parts and service from the established sellers. When the reports from real Pelikaners come in about his stuff/service, I suspect those posts will speak for themselves. :)

Thank you Ronnie for your observation, its well taken!

your probably right

but the whole purpose of this tread and why i started it in the first place is new a/c technology over old because it works much better

The early model 911 Porsche was flawed by its it's original design problem of no thought to having A/C at all and it was thrown in only as an afterthought due to demand in the US by Americans, this was ok back in the days of using only R-12 Freon, but since the change to R-134a its time for owners to adapt to newer technologies.

Because I know how its hot summer and how difficult things are financially for many people right now and I care about people not being able to afford what I am making is one of the I reasons I just uploaded the picture from one of my tests using a universal size ackits.com in Arizona PFC to try to help people save some money and to get by with that will serve them fairly well so they don’t sweat too much although it is not as efficient as what I make

You might also try to remember I have competition touting serpentine older technology too.

Please know I am not heartless and I would try to help anyone that needs help as best I can

Reid, methinks that maybe your real problem was that you were born way to late. All the problems you appear to be working to solve were solved long ago by persons born long before you.

R-134a didn't create this problem, it existed throughout the era of R12 use.

You should find, and solve a problem with more currency.

Say like using A/C refrigerant to cool a pressurized intake charge via the use of a "blend door" concept.

That would enable Ford to use the standard compression for DFI, ~12:1 on their ECoBoost/TwinForce engines and still turbocharge those engines without derated/detuning them, 10:1 CR, to make "room" for boost pressure.

Howdy si Banker, first I think what you are calling a cogged belt, you mean what is actually called a serpentine belt to change your currently installed V-Belt to.
(no relationship to serpentine heat exchanger coil)

In my opinion Engineering wise to change to a single serpentine driven belt from “ONLY two V-belts”, with the size of the three pulleys drive ratios remaining the same you would not gain any positive horse power gain more than negligible. Plus the cost to change over all your current V-belt pulleys to serpentine would not be cheap, and furthermore changing their metal from steel to aluminum or other light metal alloy benefit would also be negligible unless perhaps the purpose was racing weight reduction

However due to newer advancements in a/c compressor technologies you can have a horsepower gain advantage by changing your compressor to one of the several new types!!! I have not done a thorough horsepower gain verses a/c compressor efficiency effectiveness performance comprehensive analysis therefore I cannot effectively recommend the best ones for you to use, but you might find useful studies available from the different a/c compressor manufacturers or by searching the internet wealth of information.

NOTE: Horsepower output DRAW = FUEL consumption; an a/c compressor is an additional engine horsepower draw to perform its function of refrigerant compression and you might find some valuable a/c compressor recommendations from discussion groups related to automobile racing.

PFC Something New
 

I Have Something New under developement for various early model 911 A/C Condensers; front and rear fender wells and side bumper placement for State of the Art PFC the highest Efficiency and Performance second to none!



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339509964.jpg
patent pending




automotive evolution of a/c condenser heat exchanger technology old to new>


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339509931.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339512721.jpg

I have measured 43* vent temps at ambient temps of 100*+ with the single decklid condenser. This is with a meat thermometer stuck in the vent and blower on high (upgraded Retro Air evap blower motor) after about 20 min of driving. That's driving during the daytime with direct sun after pulling the car from the garage. It gets much colder when the sun goes down and not competing with the greenhouse affect. If it's been in the sun at 100*+ and becomes heat soaked, It will cool down the interior in about 15 min., but I'm guessing vent temps are only in the 50's. In the evening when the sun is down, but temps are still in the mid to high 90's, the vent temps are bone chilling cold, but I haven't measured.

My oil temps range between 180* and 200*. I did see about 210* once when idling in 100*+ waiting for my daughter at school. Temp dropped quickly when I started moving again. I have the 28 row brass aux oil cooler and the temp sender is less than a year old.

The Retro Air PFC rear decklid condenser, as mentioned before, isn't a perfect fit to the opening of the decklid. It leaves a few inches of gap on either side. I fabricated block off's for these gaps with aluminum treadplate. Easy to do and prevents air from diverting around the condenser.

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...untitled-1.jpg

Excellent info reply Thank You Very Much Josh!

I would like to encourage you to interact with the readers here, your experiences with your Retro Air PFC are very useful to others about how well the technology of actually using PFC’s and very much ON-TOPIC; and furthermore especially because you also live in the desert, and if I can help you in anyway with the knowledge or experienced I have I would be more than happy too!!!

I have been waiting for a year now for someone like you, running either a Retro Air pfc rear unit or one by ackits pfc in their 911 to wonder into this tread but in all this time you have been the first so far.

But you are even a better godsend (smile) you live in in The Mojave desert in Gilbert just outside Phoenix, and being from Calif I have been in your neck of the words many times including your very hot and dry summer weather in many travels along I-10 which includes Phoenix. I am more than very interested in your a/c cooling in your 911 experiences in all kinds of driving conditions. Not trying to sell you anything but fyi a better higher performance front condenser with modified front blowers then 911 OEM would give you even better a/c temps in stop and go and extended idling conditions.

I got into the insanity of making my own PFC’s only being dissatisfied after trying and fully testing the very same PFC you have and are using and decided it was just not good enough for what I personally wanted, because I wanted colder. I GOT ANGRY that although this same pfc worked better in my rear deck lid than anything else available at the time, but it still was not good enough for me because I wanted lower and faster a/c cooling temps than this same PFC efficiency/performance could produce you are using, so I decided to made my own that is far better for many reasons; and this is what lead me to what I am doing now, after successfully reaching my PFC efficiency/performance goals down to and below 32F @ 95F ambient and 99/100 % humidity in all kinds of driving conditions.

(NOTE to the reader here: ACKITS in Arizona sells the same PFC Retro Air has far cheaper for those on a budget! And if anyone wants one of these universal PFC’s let me know, I have one would let go for a very good price I have no further use for)


Your oil temps are perfectly within normal Porsche factory 911 ranges for even a 911 in only 80-85 degree ambient temps not even running any A/C at all, I am actually a bit surprised your oil temps were not a little bit higher at 100 F ambient. On my 75 Carrera all though I still have the factory OEM oil cooler in the right front fender I have not used it in a couple of years and left the oil lines disconnected and still running front and rear a/c condensers with all my rear PFC dumping extra heat into the engine compartment, ohh and my rear deck lid PFC absolutely completely sealed over the fresh air inlet hole forcing ALL incoming ambient air into my deck lid air inlet first THROUGH the PFC

I have a question for you about your rear pfc, did you decide yourself to fully seal your condenser yourself to the inside of the deck lid or did you do this because Retro Air suggest this too you? You have no idea how many un-knowledgeable people believe stupidly this causes engine harm I have had to clue in about this and set them straight. Even Porsche factory

When I read my naysayers here touting their older technology condensers in what I consider to be obsolete technology filling up and wasting page after page of this tread with all their useless NOISE posts, it’s refreshing you came along when you did and now we can get back on topic

Your 43 F a/c air vent temps are very similar to what I was here in Fort Lauderdale at 95 F and 99 % high humidity getting running with the same universal size PFC you have except I bought mine from ACKITS.

When I get a chance I will say more in another post of my reasons I found the PFC you are using I rejected using it and went on to make my own

Last but not least (Josh I have another new interesting idea, to my knowledge no one has ever tried before on an early model 911 a/c, and I have been talking to the chief engineer about it in a technical engineering discussion the other day of a major a/c company about it and he agrees with me, and actually told me the same thing before I had even had a chance to tell him (grin) Anyway I have not tested this idea yet but I plan to soon. The belief from an engineering point of view in a very simple different way of thinking, It is possible to enhance and give a 911 a/c system for probably about $100 lower air vent temps without changing any components.)


Look closely on my picture below of the same rear PFC you are using and notice at the out-side edges I was using clear plastic in testing to fully seal any air inlet and PFC air leaks to force ALL INCOMING AIR THROUGH THE PFC so none could escape around it. There is further soft rubber insulation sealing you can not see that fully seals the PFC





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339187578.jpg

Look closely on my picture of the same rear PFC you are using and notice at the out-side edges I was using clear plastic in testing to fully seal any air inlet and PFC air leaks to force ALL INCOMING AIR THROUGH THE PFC so none could escape around it.

Some of the problems with this pfc are

#one 5-6 or so rows of micro-channel tubes below the deck lid intake air opening doing nothing but receiving high radiant engine extra heat instead of getting rid of dumping part of the PFC heat defeating their purpose, because this PFC is way too long for the deck lid air intake hole in one of its dimensions!

#Two a further waste of approximately 20-25 % cubic feet side width other dimension is not long enough for the PFC width of the deck lid air opening; "THAT FURTHER DEFEATS the Porsche early model 911 well known Porsche Factory body design flaw of not having enough cubic feet of room in the first place for the A/C condenser!

#Three this PFC is only an "early type PFC micro-channel technology & ONLY A single pass PFC";

However any 911 rear deck lid PFC even this one is at least better than any older 911 technology condenser therefore it is an improvement (smile)
This ACKITS.COM PFC might work ok for someone who lives in lower ambient temps and/or on a tight budget looking for an inexpensive PFC a/c solution

Oh by the way the black horizontal mark above the black hoses is compressor oil and refridgernt leak caused by my prior a/c compressor before I replaced my old one with a new one, this is a tell tale SIGN mark if you see one similar in this area on your deck lid its time for you to think about getting a new compressor

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...untitled-1.jpg

What is the purpose of the wiring I see above the right hinge area..?

Answers in RED

Thats the wiring for the (gasp!) cyclop third brake light above the turbo tail. Trust me, the turbo tail is the next thing to go!!

My humble opinions.

I started out a couple of years ago just like you have with your smaller dimension rear PFC and the same exact one I bought from ackits and using my OEM tube and fin front condenser, and did all the known a/c tricks and tips and a few more but I could not get constant temps in all driving conditions much lower than you have after a lot of testing but wanted at least 10 degree drop colder air vent temps, and from all this testing I knew the answer was adding condenser more square inches surface area. Because I could not get much better air-vent temps than you have.

I had been trying to buy a PF condenser from anywhere worldwide that would fit my early 911 OEM front and rear factory body cavities for more than 3 years; I knew when I bought ackits PFC it was too small

Thinking as a marine engineer Everything matters; that could be a cause or affect related to the efficiency or the performance of a heat exchanger when the available dimensions are undersize limited as in an older model 911 condensers and your trying to get/gain as much performance as possible for the space you have available to work with!!! From my technical research I learned PF condensers when using R-134A can be approximately 25-30 % smaller in dimensions than any prior technology heat exchanger (which includes tube and fin & serpentine) and yet still achieve a 25-35 +% higher condensation efficiency/performance

I think outside the box and I have spent a lot of time studying every possible affect in my mind I could imagine that could have any kind of effect both negative and positive whither it was radiated engine heat from the engine in the deck lid or the rows of tubes being out of the incoming ambient airflow etc., when I designed my first rear contour deck lid PFC, furthermore I have made and tested several revision prototypes that also keep adapting to newer state of the art PFC micro-channel technologies and have learned by testing experience EVERYTHING MATTERS no matter how small especially when there is not enough room in the first place. From my testing I believe it is a mistake to believe/think having extra rows of TUBE attempting to condense refrigerant not being cooled with ambient air-flow

Moreover I have also studied serpentine technology after doing a lot of technical reading related to PFC for a long time and from much research it only offers approximately about a 6 to 8 % performance efficiency improvement compared to tube and fin technology For Similar Sizes of Tube, but for argument sake let’s say it’s a higher 12 % more efficient than tube and fin; and it’s a proven fact PFC offers approximately in many published scientific studies 25-35+% increase in performance and YET can be further MUCH smaller in all dimensions and this is why all the worlds automotive manufacturers have switched to PFC’s!

Others have had older technology serpentine condensers available for years and they all work a little better then tube and fin and I knew they offered some improvement to tube and fin tube condensers, but the rub is that they Have To Be Made Much Thicker width in diameter and/or longer and taller to match the ,much higher efficiency/performance of a PFC! I.E. I have done a lot of interesting testing comparisons between tube and fin, and serpentine evaporators; that were actually the same dimensions for example that included refrigerant gauge pressures, heat exchanger surface digitally monitored exact temps, and output air vent temps digitally monitored temps and the difference I found was very little performance gain although serpentine evaps are a little better;

Then with further extensive testing about a year ago I compared a plate & fin technology evap I designed as a new product that was about 25 % smaller in length and width and slightly smaller in thickness and it has a MUCH HIGHER performance/efficiency; This further discovery cemented my opinion that serpentine heat exchanges for any purpose for air conditioning IS Obsolete technology!

it’s a fact compared to serpentine, any PFC heat exchanger can be approximately ¼ smaller in all dimensions and still Preform approx. 25-35 % with a higher efficiency!!! And this is why every new automobile manufacture in the world has switched to Newer technology

Reid,

This is a 1.

I have no issue with you tooting your horn, however if you are going use our firm's name or trademark anywhere in a public statement and it is determined to be not factual, think before you write.

I have very carefully designed my PFC's to take FULL advantage of every bit of surface area possible in both the front body clip, and the rear deck lid air inlet opening the early 911 body has available even better then Porsche factory did


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339975000.jpg
My front PFC is larger than OEM to get as much PFC surface area as possible


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339978796.jpg
My rear deck lid contour PFC is completely sealed to the deck lid air inlet opening
Note; that there are no extra micro-channel tube rows below the air inlet air-flow
That would allow hot radiated engine heat to reduce the performance of the rear PFC!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339979063.jpg

NOTE: This rear deck lid in the picture is not a normal 911 Porsche steel OEM deck lid, it is a custom made fiberglass retro look duck deck lid and I had to slightly modify my contour PFC that normally perfectly fits all early model Porsche's 1963-1989 and also add special support brackets and trim the PFC metal a little to make it fit this aftermarket fiberglass deck lid; that my rear PFC normally does not need anything extra done to it to fit on the Porsche factory OEM deck lid

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1339979582.jpg

Kuel thank you for pointing this out, I have edited trademark name out this time as a courtesy!

However what I said is/was factual and only a comparison of old and new technology used. Respectfully I know the laws related to what I can say publically or write legally and did not infringe on them related to you.

I noticed you replied to this post within minutes after I posted it, seems you are being overly critical and watching my tread like a hawk do you have a problem with having new competition?

However it might not have been fair to you only using your trademark name, without including all your competitor’s names using similar technology at the same time, so I will try to be more careful out of better respect to you in the future. I would prefer to have a continuing friendly and good relationship with you!

Why does Porsche have two AC condensers? I looked at other AC units and they don't even have a condensor just a compressor. Is there a way to simplify the entire system especially since your new condensor is more efficient?

You just didn't see the condenser as there must be one in order to have a/c (auto, home, refrigerators - they all have them as this is the component that dumps, or transfers, heat from the system). The 911s have two condensers because there is no frontal area, like on most cars, to mount one large one.

I am only familar with a few cars but I have an 89 VW that has AC but there is no description of a condensor in the Bently manual. Maybe there is some type of condensor but there certainly is not two and not all of the parts the Porsche has. A simple solution would really help save weight and give the engine compartment more room.

The condensor on your VW is probably mounted in front of the radiator (like on most vehicles on the road) and likely has more surface area, and certainly gets far more airflow, than all the 911 condensors combined . . .

Condenser on your VW is in front of the radiator and looks very much like a radiator.

First answer because the 911 body room available for either condenser is not big enough in cubic feet of surface area! Even with the now 2 condensers that used tube and fin condenser technology it was never big enough when using the original R-12 refrigerant, and when R-134a became the replacement for R-12,
R134a made a bad situation even worse.

The early model 911 Porsche was never designed to have any Air Conditioning whatsoever and was a Porsche design flaw, Air Conditioning was added by Porsche only as an afterthought due to demand from North America owners in the late 60's and early 70's. For these early 911s the A/C system I believe was mostly by only a local dealer option in the USA after the 911 was delivered from Germany! About 1974-75 for the Porsche Silver Anniversary Edition I think, a/c finally became a Porsche factory option besides being a USA dealer option supplied by both Porsche factory or by independent aftermarket USA sources approved and/or licensed by Porsche unless I am mistaken.

FYI All Air Conditioning and refrigeration systems that use a refrigerant gas compressor, (I think I can safely say?) must have a condenser as part of the system coming out of the high pressure side of the compressor as hot high pressure gases, next to force the hot compressed gas to cool (CONDENSE) the gases and go into what is called phase change to liquid,

before the refrigerant stream continues the circuit and is sent next downstream as mostly a liquid by way of and through the filter dryer and next onto or near the evaporator,

and in the case of an early model 911 right before it enters the evaporator, it next enters the thermal expansion valve which causes a radical pressure dropped liquid and from which it next is injected and inters directly into the evaporator inlet as mostly a low pressure liquid,

and inside the evaporator is where there is another refrigerant phase change (the most important for making cold as kind of a liquid mist atomizes as it phase changes) from liquid refrigerant to gas refrigerant and thereby as a product of this phase change greatly expands at the point of the phase change where it is the coldest temp,

thereafter this now low pressure expanded GAS refrigerant comes out of the evaporator expended after doing its work making cold and continues on to the low pressure inlet side of the compressor and the a/c cycle repeats itself

Scott I agree with you this might be a good idea after thinking about it

I am not sure but I might offer something like this to a few specially selected Pelican members at lower unit cost that live in places places that have high ambient temps?

If you do, I would be game! I have a 1987 930 with OEM front and tail condensers. I do have a Zims fender condenser in the left rear, however.

I live in the Dallas TX area - doesn't get much hotter and more humid than that!

I would be happy to test your bits and report to you on any findings, and in any manner, that you wish.

Good Plan. Glad to see your back on track.

+1

Very interested to see where this goes. I'm also in Dallsa and have done some mods to the ac on my '88 but still not where I want it to be. I added a large condesor and fan in the left rear wheel well and a Procooler but if the car sits in the sun for any lenght of time about the best I can get is a 30 degree drop from whater the actual temperature is.

After 550 posts I've lost interest in where this is going.SmileWavy

I want to say something about what Josh has said and where my head is related to 911’s and heat exchangers in the 911 body and also engine oil temps

Josh’s 1980 911 SC engine oil temps running his a/c in 100 plus ambient in the desert while using a PFC in his deck lid and only having normal engine oil temps and him saying “My oil temps range between 180* and 200*. I did see about 210* once when idling in 100*+”, agrees with the extensive PFC testing in my 75 Carrera engine oil temps I get similar negligible higher engine oil temps Josh gets; in Fort Lauderdale with 95 degree ambient temps and very high % humidity, but still get a/c air vent temps lower than Josh”31 F” but thermostatically raised the my air vent temps to 33-34F to prevent freezing in all types of driving conditions because both of my front and rear PFC’s are bigger and therefore have larger PFC surface area coupled with newer state of the art higher performance/efficiency micro-channel tubes, together with they are designed as a matched set to perfectly fit the 911 body to get absolute optimum heat transfer, and the heat dump effect into the engine compartment appears to not raise to within normal safe levels

Having said this, I honestly think/believe that using extra/additional condensers in the fenders are NOT needed at all using ONLY my front and rear PFC’s on normally aspirated 911, unless maybe you live in extreme 110-125 F desert areas; and except maybe on 930 turbos with larger engine later model with the newer much larger intercoolers,

only due to requests & demands for a/c condenser alternate 911 body placement then Porsche Factory OEM stock front and rear body placement, am I in the process of making front and rear fender units both single and duel core PFC’s prototype’s for early model 911’s prior to 2000; I don’t think fender condensers are needed to have a very cold 911 Personally; nonetheless for other than racing applications, or when using supercharged or turbo’s with very large intercoolers, or a few extreme desert extremely high temp cases

I am also currently working as well as rear deck lid PFC’s for 930 turbo’s and also for 911’s manufactured after 2000-2005 front side bumpers units for new 911 PFC products. When I get time to go back to the newer technology evaporator for the smuggles box I want to complete this project; and I have been also thinking about a completely new modernized interior mounted a/c with evaporator/blower unit.

I need to clarify my oil temps as it appears I was ready my temp gauge wrong. I have type "C" in this picture:

http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/a...over/types.jpg

I had always thought that the white line at the top of the warm up zone was 180*. But apperantly it is 194*. When fully warmed up and not running A/C, my needle will go to just above that mark, or 200*. Running A/C I'm in the 220* to 230* range. Still well below the red zone, but probably not ideal either.

I have always felt, due to reading articles, that anything over 210F was not good... 240F is definately bad and that is where my engine wants to go if I push it hard. I would like to get additional cooling if possible, the Elephant cool finned lines seem like the best approach with addiditonal ability to drain oil cooler and and lines when changing oil.

style B...what is the temp if running inbtwn the 2nd & 3rd white line = about 9 o'clock...?? I cannot read the temp #'s on the side of the gage...thx...