I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by wwest

It appears to me, probably as a result of what he has LEARNED here, that Reid is retargeting his product toward "fender cats". Basically still his "new" condensors but mounted elsewhere, other than the rear deck lid and front "chin", and inclusive of a good high volume fan.

His problem, as I see it, is the existing, proven, and very well established competition. So he will either need to radically under-price the competition in order to get a decent level of sales, or provide proof of additional, satisfactory, cooling capacity/efficiency.

Given that the products already available in the marketplace appear to solve that latter issue quite well we may be able to buy Reid's product on the "cheap".

I think that is a logical progression. But considering Reid's approach to his potential market, especially those folks who want more than unproven claims, I doubt he'll have much success at any price point. Again, this is the MotorMeister business model. Lots of big claims, and a low price. What could possibly go wrong?

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by vinyl_tien

can you make one for 964?

Hello Vinyl,

I am currently in the process of designing and engineering new prototypes for 964's, turbo's, and for individuals with special needs in very hot climates of 100 F. plus degrees that require additional fender or front side bumper condenser units.

I strongly believe from my experiences after extensive testing installed in my 1975 911 last summer during ambient temperatures of 95 F and very high humidity’s using only my PFC’s in front lip and rear deck lid matched sets configuration within the OEM original places with my PFC’s in all kinds of driving situations that

Unfortunately, I will not be shipping my PFC's outside of North America for anytime soon so I won't be able to help you

[brads911sc]

LOL. Well there you have it boys and girls... LOL Only took us 483 posts.

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

this is the MotorMeister business model. Lots of big claims...

Originally Posted by KelogGes

...I won't be able to help you

[brads911sc]

Should target 90 plus. 100 plus limits you to Arrizona and New Mexico. Most of us live in the Mid 90's all summer.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

in very hot climates of 100 F. plus degrees that require additional fender or front side bumper condenser units.

[brads911sc]

1. cost? for each component? as well as in the kit? What is included in your kit? For example, If I change my condenser, Ill also need a drier and expansion valve. Will you sell the drier or will you have a vendor you work with on that? It would be pointless to change a condenser and not change old leaky hoses and o-rings. I guanantee you Reid, if you sell a condener, and a user doesnt get the performance you are advertising, they WILL blame you and your condenser. That is why Griff and Rennaire sell kits and why they disacourage small incremental changes unless everything has been upgraded already. Good way to gain a poor (word of mouth) reputation... not to mention lawsuits and returns.

2. weight?

3. selling points over a well designed kit by Griff and Rennaire who have already proven 35 degree temps WITH 95 degree ambients and "OLD" technology. for anyone who has ice cold AC in a hot climate and has spent $$ why would they dump a working system? Just because its newer technology?

4. What problem are you trying to solve? Does your product solve that problem? Poor vent temps are not a problem... Griff already solved that. So what is the problem this addresses? Is it the Griff cost? Can you really make a product that will last 10 years, provide 35 degree vent temps, and charge the consumer less than $289?

5. Have you done a market study/analysis? How many pre 89 911's are registered today, how many have an aftermarket kit like Griff? How many of the owners have owned their car for over 5 years (they probably wouldnt spend the $$ if they havent spent it in the first 5 years). What is your breakeven point for production numbers? Assume a $300 price point.

6. Have you prepared a technical Q&A with ALL questions answered?

7. Filter vs No Filter? if you site a list of filters from 20 years ago that doesnt fit a car made after 1998, you lose credibility. If you site AC manufacturers and words like "every" and "all" when in fact 5 of the 6 top auto manufactures (Toyota, VW, Honda, Ford, Chrysler) use no such device, you lose credibility. In fact, the ONLY car manufacturer that actually uses a filter in a post 2005 car is GM.

8. Fans vs No Fans?

9. Proof of your products superiority? if you site research for Serpentine Vs Yours and it doesnt even compare Serpentine but rather tube and fin, you lose credibility.

10. Non-Barrier hose issue? you give us pictures of a chinese vacuum pump and just tell us to add refrigerant every year? Seriously? That is not a solution.

11. Engine temps. With Factory AC, With your AC. Same ambients/humidity. Side by side comaprison in 4-5 different climates.

12. What about that research you posted that is mixed at best against the original design and doesnt even apply to serpentine. Where is the Serpentine vs your product research? data? real world testing? side by side comparisons? We have NEVER seen it!

[RSTarga]

I don't think 964's have an air conditioning problem. They are what we with older cars aspire to.

[si Banker]

I have lived and drove a 911 in both South Florida and in the Fort Worth area.

There is a very large difference between making an ac system like the one on a 1974 through 1989 911 function on a satisfactory level in 100 degree plus weather based on the assumption that just vecause it works at 92 to 95 degrees.

The air temp in south florida very rairly goes over 95 and the temp drops soon after sun down. Here is Texas it does not cool off until 5:00am

Just because it works in s florida does not mean it will work in Texas or anywhere in the s west

[brads911sc]

+1

that is why he needs extensive testing, in more than south florida. I go to the florida key west to get away from the sweltering heat and humidity of Houston.. believe it or not... Alot of miscalculations on this thread.



11. Engine temps. With Factory AC, With your AC. Same ambients/humidity. Side by side comaprison in 4-5 different climates.

12. What about that research you posted that is mixed at best against the original design and doesnt even apply to serpentine. Where is the Serpentine vs your product research? data? real world testing? side by side comparisons? We have NEVER seen it!

Originally Posted by si Banker

I have lived and drove a 911 in both South Florida and in the Fort Worth area.

There is a very large difference between making an ac system like the one on a 1974 through 1989 911 function on a satisfactory level in 100 degree plus weather based on the assumption that just vecause it works at 92 to 95 degrees.

The air temp in south florida very rairly goes over 95 and the temp drops soon after sun down. Here is Texas it does not cool off until 5:00am

Just because it works in s florida does not mean it will work in Texas or anywhere in the s west

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by si Banker

I have lived and drove a 911 in both South Florida and in the Fort Worth area.

There is a very large difference between making an ac system like the one on a 1974 through 1989 911 function on a satisfactory level in 100 degree plus weather based on the assumption that just vecause it works at 92 to 95 degrees.

The air temp in south florida very rairly goes over 95 and the temp drops soon after sun down. Here is Texas it does not cool off until 5:00am

Just because it works in s florida does not mean it will work in Texas or anywhere in the s west

WOW, well said . . . I have lived in the Dallas TX area for around 20 years (and this time of year really wonder why) and it is still difficult to comprehend that one can go outside at +/- 12:00 in the evening and it is still 90+ outside (not quite there yet but it is getting close) and that the humidity here is so thick that your clothes are damp if you are outdoors for more that 30 seconds! "Summer" begins here in late March and continues until November (I **** you not, Sept. and Oct. are hot as hell around here) . . .

This would be an excellent environment to put these condensers and evaporators to the test!

[Josh D]

Another factor is heat soak. I have my system pretty dialed in and I'll get very comfortable vent temps in 105*+ when pulled out of the garage. If the car has been sitting in the sun for any length of time (i.e. when at work), it takes it a full 15 minutes to get the same vent temps. My commute is 20 min, so I get to enjoy the last five minutes before I'm pulling into the garage!!

This is with the single PFC rear condensor from Retro Air (no additional fan) and stock front condensor BTW.

[brads911sc]

This is a great point. I too have a pretty dialed in system, and i dont even drive it between 11-4 unless I know I am parking in a garage or shade. with a triple black car there is just no point.

Originally Posted by Josh D

Another factor is heat soak. I have my system pretty dialed in and I'll get very comfortable vent temps in 105*+ when pulled out of the garage. If the car has been sitting in the sun for any length of time (i.e. when at work), it takes it a full 15 minutes to get the same vent temps. My commute is 20 min, so I get to enjoy the last five minutes before I'm pulling into the garage!!

This is with the single PFC rear condensor from Retro Air (no additional fan) and stock front condensor BTW.

[DG624]

A car cover allows you to park with windows down to avoid heat gain. It also eliminates paint problems from rain and birds.

[brads911sc]

Exactly...

Do a comparison on Ft Laudedale and Dallas, San Antonio, Houston at 1 am.
Its actually pretty crazy.

I lived in Planatation FL right near Ft Lauderdale and they have not seen heat.. I go to S Florida for relief. That ocean breeze changes the entire equation.

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

WOW, well said . . . I have lived in the Dallas TX area for around 20 years (and this time of year really wonder why) and it is still difficult to comprehend that one can go outside at +/- 12:00 in the evening and it is still 90+ outside (not quite there yet but it is getting close) and that the humidity here is so thick that your clothes are damp if you are outdoors for more that 30 seconds! "Summer" begins here in late March and continues until November (I **** you not, Sept. and Oct. are hot as hell around here) . . .

This would be an excellent environment to put these condensers and evaporators to the test!

[brads911sc]

Of course if Reid actually tested this product with idependant pelicans in Dallas, San Antonio, Phoeniz, etc... (Side by side comaprison in 4-5 different climates). where he would allow the person to report the true performance, good or bad... he would be able to answer my question 11 and 12 above.

[si Banker]

T have replaced my hoses, added a pro cooler, serpentine evaporator, and a para ell condenser and have 38 degree vent temps on a 100 plus day. Ido not know what this guy is selling but it is already hardware is already out there.

If I park my car in the sum on a 100 plus day my system will cool it down but it is a chore. The next change I am going to make is a stronger fan to get the cool air into the cabin.

[brads911sc]

Yes. Mine cools it too even after being in the sun. But I like it cold. and i dont want to wait 15 minutes.

As an aside. The Keuhl fan is GREAT. It is absolutely required to take full advantage of the better Evap and Condensers.

Originally Posted by si Banker

T have replaced my hoses, added a pro cooler, serpentine evaporator, and a para ell condenser and have 38 degree vent temps on a 100 plus day. Ido not know what this guy is selling but it is already hardware is already out there.

If I park my car in the sum on a 100 plus day my system will cool it down but it is a chore. The next change I am going to make is a stronger fan to get the cool air into the cabin.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by si Banker

T have replaced my hoses, added a pro cooler, serpentine evaporator, and a para ell condenser and have 38 degree vent temps on a 100 plus day. Ido not know what this guy is selling but it is already hardware is already out there.

If I park my car in the sum on a 100 plus day my system will cool it down but it is a chore. The next change I am going to make is a stronger fan to get the cool air into the cabin.

If the A/C compressor is NOT cycling on/off in the 100F plus initial cool down effort then additional airflow will be of no help. That would be an indication that the compressor/condensor is "struggling" to get, and keep, the evaporator down to ~35F.

On the other hand if the A/C compressor IS cycling on and off then the evaporator is getting "over-chilled", excess cooling capacity not being used, and more airflow is justified.

Assuming, of course, that the thermostatic capillary tube is properly positioned within the evaporator core to "just" prevent freeze up.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by wwest

If the A/C compressor is NOT cycling on/off in the 100F plus initial cool down effort then additional airflow will be of no help. That would be an indication that the compressor/condensor is "struggling" to get, and keep, the evaporator down to ~35F.

On the other hand if the A/C compressor IS cycling on and off then the evaporator is getting "over-chilled", excess cooling capacity not being used, and more airflow is justified.

Assuming, of course, that the thermostatic capillary tube is properly positioned within the evaporator core to "just" prevent freeze up.

I think he is talking about the evap blower, not a condensor blower.

I have Retro Air's upgraded evap blower and it is a BIG help. It might not help drop vent temps, but the additional air blowing on you from the vents helps your own body's factory air conditioning (sweat evaporating cooling) do it's job. Especially in lower humidy heat.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Josh D

I think he is talking about the evap blower,

So was I.....

not a condensor blower.

I have Retro Air's upgraded evap blower and it is a BIG help. It might not help drop vent temps, but the additional air blowing on you from the vents helps your own body's factory air conditioning (sweat evaporating cooling) do it's job. Especially in lower humidy heat.

If the compressor never cycles off during an/the initial cooldown period then that is a sure sign that the evaporator isn't being chilled to the MAX. In which case adding evaporator blower volume will not be of much help except in the case you bring up, additional human body metabolism cooling capability.

The sad news is that with higher blower speeds the system's ability for dehumidification is lowered, maybe even to zero.

[brads911sc]

In theory yes.

But the factory fan generate so little air that even if you had 32 degree air 100% of the time, there just inst enough airflow if the outside ambients are over 92.

For kicks go sit outside on a 95 degree day in front of an industrial fan vs a little round desk fan and tell me what makes you feel cooler.. regardless of the temp of the actual air.

I think that with additional condensers, fans on those fender condensers, and better evap, you need a higher output fan to fully maximize the addional efficiency of the overall system.

Of course my proof isnt scientific... but with factory fan i sweat and with Kuehl i dont. that has to count for something... Furthermore the ambient temp in the back seat with the kuehl is 15--20 degrees lower. There is an definite lack of adequate airflow with the factory fan.

Originally Posted by wwest

If the compressor never cycles off during an/the initial cooldown period then that is a sure sign that the evaporator isn't being chilled to the MAX. In which case adding evaporator blower volume will not be of much help except in the case you bring up, additional human body metabolism cooling capability.

The sad news is that with higher blower speeds the system's ability for dehumidification is lowered, maybe even to zero.