I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[brads911sc]

WWEST

Does a SPAL fan cool your 911?

Why do you so easily take a single case and use it to fit your theory about something else that is far from even similar.

Sounds like you need to do some testing before making assumptions.

After all, you really cant challenge the engineers at Porsche without some proof. can you?

Originally Posted by wwest

Very puzzling...Spal's own numbers.

It appears that Spal's "small sacrifice" rule does not apply in all cases.

30102041 pull/straight 1434 CPM 19.5 Amps

30102042 pull/curved 1864 CPM 17 Amps

30102055 push/straight 1333 CPM 19.5 Amps

30102056 push/curved 1841 CPM 17 Amps

More airflow PLUS lower power draw.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

WWEST

Does a SPAL fan cool your 911?

Why do you so easily take a single case and use it to fit your theory about something else that is far from even similar.

Sounds like you need to do some testing before making assumptions.

After all, you really cant challenge the engineers at Porsche without some proof. can you?

Well, first of all I assume you agree that at least some of the information is patently WRONG. Secondarily no one knows for sure if this information had a factory origin.

Proof..? Doesn't the linked post do the job..?

[wwest]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

WWEST

Does a SPAL fan cool your 911?

Why do you so easily take a single case and use it to fit your theory about something else that is far from even similar.


See post #734...

Sounds like you need to do some testing before making assumptions.

After all, you really cant challenge the engineers at Porsche without some proof. can you?

....

[brads911sc]

Yes I saw post 734. and?

if there is conflicting info (seemingly) between some SPAL models where curved = less volume and on other models where it = more volume... wouldnt it make sense to find out why before making assuptions about the Porsche fan which is not even the same design as SPAL nor made by SPAL.

Originally Posted by wwest

See post #734...

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by wwest

Well, first of all I assume you agree that at least some of the information is patently WRONG. Secondarily no one knows for sure if this information had a factory origin.

Proof..? Doesn't the linked post do the job..?

Here's more proof for you to refute -

Straight vs. Curved Fan Blades - Dispelling the Myth!

Note that with the 964 Porsche did exactly what is talked about as a negative in that linked webpage - curved the blades and kept the shroud struts straight = big loss in moved air volume.

[brads911sc]

Nice write up and research.

Of course WWEST will claim that anything tested on the bench isnt valid. LOL If he accepted this, he would need to accept Griffiths bench testing... and we couldnt have that. That blows up his whole purpose in life. LOL

he will also claim that its false and just snake oil because the research was done by someone selling something... to accept this would expose his double standard when it comes to GTI. of course those standards dont apply to SPAL since he bought their snake oil.

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Here's more proof for you to refute -

Straight vs. Curved Fan Blades - Dispelling the Myth!

[brads911sc]

they are just selling snake oil.

cant trust that bench testing.

Originally Posted by wwest

Very puzzling...Spal's own numbers.

It appears that Spal's "small sacrifice" rule does not apply in all cases.

30102041 pull/straight 1434 CFM 19.5 Amps

30102042 pull/curved 1864 CFM 17 Amps

30102055 push/straight 1333 CFM 19.5 Amps

30102056 push/curved 1841 CFM 17 Amps

More airflow PLUS lower power draw.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Here's more proof for you to refute -

Straight vs. Curved Fan Blades - Dispelling the Myth!

Note that with the 964 Porsche did exactly what is talked about as a negative in that linked webpage - curved the blades and kept the shroud struts straight = big loss in moved air volume.

Thanks much, but I think I'll stick with Spal 's square vs curved blade "numbers", and their curved blade fans that includes those "winglets", or Ebay replicas thereof.

Oh, the naysaying..where is the power draw chart and/or relative RPM between the 2, for one vs the other..?

[brads911sc]

Why ? because you paid money for the snake oil?

Originally Posted by wwest

Thanks much, but I think I'll stick with Spal 's square vs curved blade "numbers", and their curved blade fans that includes those "winglets", or Ebay replicas thereof.

[brads911sc]

SPAL could never lie. I own those. LOL so predictable WWEST.

Originally Posted by wwest

Thanks much, but I think I'll stick with Spal 's square vs curved blade "numbers", and their curved blade fans that includes those "winglets", or Ebay replicas thereof.

[Ronnie's.930]

Question - if the 964 curved blade fan moves more air, as wwest claims, why do you suppose Porsche put the straight blade fan on the 964 turbo which generates far more heat than the non-turbo 964? Do you think it was because Porsche wanted it to run hotter and thus promote even more frequent engine overhauls?

[brads911sc]

WWEST operates from a SPAL fan snake oil perspective. not one based in logic or fact. so doubt you will make him understand what you are saying... this stuff is just too complex for him to comprehend.

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Question - if the 964 curbed blade fan moves more air, as wwest claims, why do you suppose Porsche put the straight blade fan on the 964 turbo which generates far more heat than the not turbo 964? Do you think it was because Porsche wanted it to run hotter and thus promote even more frequent engine overhauls?

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

WWEST operates from a SPAL fan snake oil perspective. not one based in logic or fact. so doubt you will make him understand what you are saying... this stuff is just too complex for him to comprehend.

Right - it's not every day that your run across someone that ignores facts and/or logic simply because they are trying to save face in a discussion over something as simple as fan air volume.

[brads911sc]

truly unbelievable. you should see his posts over on another thread. just as crazy and insane. over there the entire premise is about engine heat. AC is secondary. the guy doesnt even have AC yet... turned the entire thread into a Spal fan and trinary switch discussion. LOL

Pre AC project - getting the car's temp down!!

pretty entertaining...

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Here's more proof for you to refute -

Straight vs. Curved Fan Blades - Dispelling the Myth!

Note that with the 964 Porsche did exactly what is talked about as a negative in that linked webpage - curved the blades and kept the shroud struts straight = big loss in moved air volume.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: A1 Electric
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:50:02 -0700
Subject: RE: A1 Electric Email Form
To: wwest

Yes, going by the current numbers that Spal has published, it appears that
the curved blades perform better.

A1 Electric Automotive Accessories
2301 W 205th St Ste 101
Torrance CA 90501

(888) 838-0506
(310) 328-8500

A1 Electric Automotive Accessories, Power windows, Power door locks, keyless entry systems, Window motors, Window regulators, Pop door kits




-----Original Message-----
From: wwest
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 11:10 AM
To: info@a1electric.com
Subject: A1 Electric Email Form

Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
wwest on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 at 14:09:37
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: wwest

Vehicle: 1988 Porsche 911

Comments: Your FAQ answer "sacrifice a small performance level for/with
curved blade fans vs straight blade fan does not appear to hold true for the
clear majority of your products....







Very puzzling...Spal's own numbers.



It appears that Spal's "small sacrifice" rule does not apply in all cases.



30102041 pull/straight 1434 CFM 19.5 Amps



30102042 pull/curved 1864 CFM 17 Amps



30102055 push/straight 1333 CFM 19.5 Amps



30102056 push/curved 1841 CFM 17 Amps



More airflow PLUS lower power draw.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[brads911sc]

Lol Snake oil. Sales pitch doesnt match their FAQ. Snake oil.

No one cares WWEST. This is a Porsche Forum not a SPAL forum! Put this with the lexus and ford references. as an aside... If the same thing happened on GTI site (like the hose argument you sited). you are all over it. whats with the double standard?

Originally Posted by wwest

I guess I seriously dislike marketeers pretending to be "professionals" that spread disinformation in the process of selling their own "snake oil" product(s). Given Kuehl's expereince level I have no doubt that he knows the truth (ignoring the possibility that he has long sense forgotten) but it doesn't serve him well at the moment.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Question - if the 964 curved blade fan moves more air, as wwest claims, why do you suppose Porsche put the straight blade fan on the 964 turbo which generates far more heat than the non-turbo 964? Do you think it was because Porsche wanted it to run hotter and thus promote even more frequent engine overhauls?

Back on topic - come on wwest, what say you? Do you think Porsche wanted to run the already much hotter 964 Turbo at an even higher temperature? Or maybe they are just all dip****s over there and couldn't see the logic in running the curved blade fan?

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

truly unbelievable. you should see his posts over on another thread. just as crazy and insane. over there the entire premise is about engine heat. AC is secondary. the guy doesnt even have AC yet... turned the entire thread into a Spal fan and trinary switch discussion. LOL

Pre AC project - getting the car's temp down!!

pretty entertaining...

Ha ha - thanks, good read!

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Back on topic - come on wwest, what say you? Do you think Porsche wanted to run the already much hotter 964 Turbo at an even higher temperature? Or maybe they are just all dip****s over there and couldn't see the logic in running the curved blade fan?

Okay, here is a naysayers DELITE!

I would suppose that with the higher efficiency of the curved blade fan spinning it at the speeds required to cool the turbo resulted in "compressor stall" or as some would say, "cavitation".

At what speed relative to the engine does the 964 turbo spin the fan..?

[wwest]

Note: "Stalled Condition"