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Looks like I am stuck with either the stock format and size condensor in the stock location in the nose with the electric fan blower, then another one in the standard location in the ducktail in the rear. You still have those? Thx, Joe A |
RSA owner's first report on recieving his RSA back
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:12 AM, THE RSA OWNER wrote to Reid Kelly:
Hello Reid, On my way back home the temperature inside the car was perfect, I had the blower on 2, and the AC button was on the low position*, I did not need to put it on a high blower speed , nor on the High Cool mode. The temp outside on the highway was about 87 F. What I did notice though, was that the Oil running temp was about 20% higher than what it was before, but fortunately the needle never reached the RED area. I could not check the air vent temp because I did not have the thermometer with me. I will keep you informed whenever I have more information. I hope you will find the right fans for the front condenser. Also whenever you install the fans we could just take care of the problem you had noticed the ventilation of the front oil cooler. Thanks x the pictures , I will keep them for my records. cordially, "Mr. AM RSA OWNER" -----Original Message----- From: Reid Kelly Captain/Chief Engineer Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:44 am Subject: 1994 Porsche R S America (1973 RSA Retro body kit) STOKES AUTOMOTIVE Custom Moditication & Install Parallel Flow Micro-Channel A/C Condensers ll Howdy Mr. AM RSA OWNER, I would like to know your highway etc. a/c vent temps asap! I want to say something about YOUR RSA; your car is THE cleanest LIKE NEW looking bottom under sides 911 I have ever seen other than a brand new 911 Porsche, and it is amazing to me it’s a 1994 and been kept so well underneath WOW ! FYI: I have made something very special specifically designed for you; custom made matched set pair of Parallel Flow Micro-Channel A/C Condensers prototypes for your 911 RSA, no one else in the world has yet and are patent pending. It is highly possible your RSA is going to become famous being the first RSA with my PFCs. To make it easier to read, I put together & edited for you from where I have I have been publically writing at Pelican’s web site about your RSA and what I am doing, I am sure you will enjoy having the pictures and report and sharing with your friends I am more than very interested to know your a/c vent temps and your engine oil temps from your driving experiences at different speeds & outside temps, idling & in stop and go traffic ; or even possibly track driving!!! I have no idea yet even what any of your preliminary a/c temps you have are??? Your car was returned before any a/c temp testing were completed, right after the front body panel was installed, except for only a few minutes of the car being driven few short blocks maybe 2.5 miles at most. I know you’re going to need front blower fans, not installed yet; mostly for stop and go driving and extended idling times. In order for me to properly engineer the installation of your front fans I need to know your air vent temps! BTW on a different topic; I want to talk to you about your front oil cooler, existing cooling fans installation when you have time. I saw something’s very briefly that bothered me as an engineer related to how poorly your 2 front blower fans are sealed onto the front oil coolers. I think should/could be better sealed making these oil coolers more efficient. I WANT YOUR RSA ICE COLD! Kindest regards, Reid |
the 20% higher oil temps are the downside to focusing on the deck condenser. whether its fans or improved design.
I would suspect this is why no one else is focusing on this. Personally, i would focus on making a front fender kit that would delete the deck all together. but thats just me. |
Or a really efficient wheel well condensor...
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Fender COOL-CATS
HOWDY brads911sc and also 88911coupe ! Joe in AZ, take a look below
I am listening to both of you very intently <smile> and you finally got me deeply thinking about fender units again, AFTER I SOMETIME AGO DISCARDED MAKING THEM; YOU have made me set aside for now my thinking about doing an Oil Cooler. THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR COMMENTS, they are very helpful! Thank You Brad for the “engine Oil temp numbers”, before and after installation of your Fender units !!! I have your Pelican PM, and want to move it over to regular email but was too busy to reply yet and give you my email address. (BTW: I hate using the mail system here and prefer using regular email for messaging) Question for you FENDER COOL-CATS <grin> ; What do you think about a new PFC design; 911 Single and/or Duel Micro Channel PFC’s Fender unit I know would be very easy to make;, before I try to start playing with enhanced L/H side and R/H side front bumper units??? And FENDER COOL-CATS while you’re at it, What to you think about this little puppy for inside your 911’s “Smugglers ICE BOX”, A NEW TYPE 911 EVAPORATOR using newer evap technology that is also much smaller then is currently available for a 911 but even more efficient <grin>, I designed and successfully tested last year and have been sitting on; With installers choice, either FOR (TX) “Thermal Expansion Valve”, or even THE more efficent (VOV) “Variable Orifice Valve & an additional (needed for orlfice valves) receiver tank installed before the compressor return inlet” ??? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334060035.jpg NOTE: TIPS & TRICKS THE RETANGULAR PLATE is an enhancement that fits inside Smugglers box plastic evap container to further fully control the evap incoming CAB air sealing and enhance the air vent blowers output colder over originally done by Porsche, and when this evap is installed onto this special plate the evap is recommented to be futher completly sealed by blocks and/or liquid expanding or other internal foaming sealing, together with the added outside of the plastic evap case being further coated and sealed together with inhanced exterier insulation material http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334060217.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334060853.jpg NOTE: Bottom evap is the latest 911 serpentine design currently available for 911s, I consider "serpentine OLD obsolete technology;" compared to my upper pictured evaporator with far newer plate & fin more efficent and my PFC's technology for 911s |
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:D Hello brcorp good post link; how did you know I was thinking FENDER demenions LoL
regards, Reid |
LOL, I've been waiting years for a 'state of the art' rear fender cooler that would take advantage of all the space back there. Idealy, it would use one of those big honkin' factory fans found on the 993/964 or the boxster.
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I probably will make some new type PFCs hopefully before summer for Turbos, Fenders, Side-Bumpers, etc., using an even newer and even more efficent PFC technology I just discovered only a few days ago; then I am currently useing which works very well.
I plan to constanently change and/or adapt too the latest state of the art heat exchanger technologys ASAP after I test & prove them on products I design. |
ICE COLD A/C 30's F 85 911 Carrera
ICE COLD A/C 30's F 85 911 Carrera
Bare with me I am still writing this ICE COLD A/C 911 install BY Justin Stokes at Stokes Automotive Porsche in Fort Lauderdale, & involved only the addition of my Custom Made 911 Front and Rear PFC's, new a/c hoses, thermal expansion valve, and an OEM 911 A/C compressor after the compressor died a black death. The evaporator was only flushed at the shop and then used. NOTE: Front and a Rear PFC's are Completely Sealed To The 911 Body; NO AIR GOES AROUND THEM; IT CAN ONLY GO THROUGH THEM USING ONLY STOCK PORSCHE 911 OEM FANS!!! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335438568.jpg 33.6 F air vent temp using R134A 85 911 Carrera http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335439592.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335440126.jpg |
Custom Designed PFC's 911 Porsche 1963-1989 930 Front & Rear Deck Lid Contour Fit
(Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condenser's Using Latest Technologies) Patent Pending Not For Export Thanks for viewing; Regards, Reid Kelly (954) 599-5235 Fort Lauderdale |
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911 Carrera A/C Air Vent Temps of 33.7 F @ 80-82 degrees ambient & 52 % humidity
SAFE air vent temps of 37.9 F @ 80-82 degrees ambient & 52 % humidity
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335529593.jpg Although this 85 911 Carrera easily achieves afternoon in the heat of the day, air vent temps of 33.7 F @ 80-82 degrees ambient & 52 % humidity, WITH THE ADDITION OF ONLY MY FRONT AND REAR CUSTOM PATENT PENDING PFC’s, 1.5 Lbs R-134A, & VERY LITTLE MINOR TWEEKING; the air vent temps are so close too or below evaporator freezing with the system evaporator probe removed the A/C System is freezing up at the local ambient temps and humidity we have currently in Fort Lauderdale Friday, April 27, 2012 !!! Therefore the evaporator thermostat probe which controls the compressor clutch on and off switch, was simply re-inserted to a point inside the plastic evaporator box to a level slightly pulled out that would allow the A/C System to run without freezing up, slightly above evaporator freezing at air-vent temps sub-38 F degrees! NOTE: To make this 911 run colder would be easy to take only a little more simple minor A/C tweaking, but would cost its owner more shop labor cost! The question you need to ask yourself is how cold is cold enough do you really need your 911 to be? (smile) BOTTOM LINE: ANY 911 CAN ACHIEVE THIRTY DEGREE AIR-VENT TEMPS USING ONLY MY FRONT & REAR CUSTOM DESIGNED 911 PFC’S !!! Believe it or don’t; This 1985 911 Carrera is using all Porsche OEM A/C Parts, except that the OEM front and rear tube and fin condensers were removed, and my custom front and rear PFC’s were installed and only minor tweaking was needed. >>> THAT’S IT TO GET ICE-COLD IN YOUR 911! <<< Best Regards, Reid 33.6 F air vent temp using R134A http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335535294.jpg |
NOTE: NO ADDITIONAL FANS WERE NEEDED BESIDES THE PORSCHE ENGINE FAN & STOCK OEM FRONT BEHR CONDENSOR FAN EVEN IN STOP AND GO DRIVING
NOTE: ENGINE OIL TEMPS WERE ALWAYS WITHIN NORMAL & SAFE RANGES IN ALL CONDITIONS!!! NOTE: DO TO POTENTIAL EVAP ICING AT TEMPS THIS LOW; A/C COMPRESSOR HIGH PRESSURE CUT OUT SWITCH IS NEEDED TO PROTECT THE COMPRESSOR; THAT IS NOT NORMALLY INSTALLED ON OLDER 911's!!! HOWEVER additional front fans would further be recommended for extended idling parked when talking on cell phone <grin> If you notice the Rock Guard is removed, its because my front PFC is bigger in length and width but much smaller in thickness then the OEM, I will be re-designing a new one when I have more time; However FOR MY FRONT PFC I HAVE SPECIAL 911 VERY HIGH CFM & VERY SLENDER WATERPROOF FANS ON ORDER that will have metal guards (more on this later) |
this little fan KICKS Some Ass
this little fan KICKS Some Ass
This is one type of the super DC Axial Waterproof Fans I am thinking of using for my front PFC; I think for example using three of these puppies is more than enough 264.5 CFM X 3 = 793.5 CFM & might be overkill but removing heat from the A/C system PFC's is the name of the game here for peak efficiency of the PFC for the A/C System to make liquid refrigerant for the evaporator to make cold. Size 150x172x55mm (5.90"x6.77"x2.17") Operating Voltage (VDC) 12 Rated Current (A) 9.0~13.8 Rated Speed RPM 3900 Air Flow CFM 264.5 Air Pressure mmH2O 264.5 Noise Level dBA 63 Note: the Noise level of 63 DBA is kinda loud and I may have to add an ajustable reostat with an on off switch to control fan speed for the driver for the times parked idleing with passangers conversation or parked mobile phone conversations??? I have a couple of other fans for the front lip PFC's I am also considering that are only about an inch thick yet still have a 200 cfm I will post pictures of I have not decided if I will or not Incorporate a fan shroud with these fans if I use them??? If I do it would be easy to also use it as part of the new rock guard also http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336015827.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336015889.jpg |
Reid,
You use the term "Patent Pending" many times in your description and in your advertising of your product... Have you actually filed a patent application? If so, then could you please provide us with the patent application number? This would go a long way to establishing credibility. FYI: Frequently Asked Questions About Patents 1. What do the terms “patent pending” and “patent applied for” mean? A. They are used by a manufacturer or seller of an article to inform the public that an application for patent on that article is on file in the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The law imposes a fine on those who use these terms falsely to deceive the public. |
Regarding Patent Pending
Respectfully to anyone reading this, and/or those ho missed what I said here before about these subjects; I am not stupid; I have Federally recognized and approved Patent Attorneys for my products who advise me; they have specifically also advised to say as little as possible both publicly and/or privately, which I have! Therefore you can consider ANY discussion whatsoever related to Patents or Technical Engineering Design aspects, etc., related to my PFC’s "CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION"! Kindest regards, Reid |
Stay tuned
I have been contacted by several different model 911 owners local to me in south Florida recently who want my PFC's installed and their A/C system upgraded to make their 911s finally cold <grin> and will be having Stokes Automotive a well known and respected Porsche repair shop here doing the custom installs & repair work and will start publishing them soon with pictures and discussion
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So Reid, it would appear that you have not actually filed a patent as your "Patent Pending" claims would imply. Any (competent) patent attorney will tell you claiming "Patent Pending" without actually having a patent application on file is illegal, and you could be fined for this claim if it is false. Or could you actually supply us with the patent application number? |
You are on a Fool’s Errand & I AM NOT GOING TO PUT UP WITH IT!
I standby everything I have said here!!!
Paul it is obvious you have come here with an unprovoked adversarial agenda including a chip on your shoulder and for some unknown reason have inferred I am a liar and/or on top of this you have tried to bully me to give you or expose to others, what I have told you was confidential information that is to be considered private information! You appear to me to be insulting, disrespectful and rude! I am not going to divulge any technical information here related to any specifics of my technologies or patents pending to you or my competitors; I created this thread sometime ago for the purpose as stated from the beginning and included what discussion here is considered OFF TOPIC which you are violating even after a warning YOUR COMMENTS ARE OFF TOPIC |
Ok moving on...
Quick question: I like the idea of the AC filter. Can you elaborate what its intended purpose is to you? Guessing to keep particles from seals/compressor out of the compressor but what does it do to pressures? |
Reid, have you firmed up your prices for the front condenser, rear condenser, and evaporator, separately and bundled?
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Guys, this thread started almost a year ago and to my knowledge, not one Pelican has put this system in their car.If I am wrong, someone please chime in on how it is working !! People have asked direct questions and have yet to receive direct answers...Reid...good luck to you...
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Back on topic
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Your question is a very good one and I am VERY glad you asked this!!! It’s a bit difficult to answer because its complicated, but I will the best I can so you and others will finally know almost everything that's been going on since last year If you notice the last 2 NAYE Sayers here have said I have had my products for sale here, which was news to me >Grin> absolutely not true!!! It amazes me the people that open their mouths & completly say false things because they are intent on misleading or their are to lazy to read. If you have read my posts since I starting writing this tread about a year ago, I have never said ANYTHING WAS FOR SALE YET! There have Intentionally been NO SALES OFFERED YET HERE AT PELICAN for several good production reasons, HOWEVER THIS IS FINALLY ABOUT TO CHANGE But there have been a few sales (that did NOT originate here on Pelican) to 911 owners THAT LIVE LOCAL TO ME IN SOUTH FLORIDA, and one OTHER that happens to be a very well known Porsche A/C component supplier I am sure you know of but that I cannot give out their name because we have LEGAL confidentially agreements. You have been here a long time and I would imagine you have read much I have written instead of being someone new here From your reading you should know that everything I make is custom handmade; what you probably don’t know is how difficult to hand make the PFC’s without damaging them and I have spent a ton of money this last year going through welders that could weld the very thin aluminum componentss satisfactory without damage, for a cost that is low enough to make it worth it to manufacture; and only until recently have I completely overcome these production problems to make the manufacturing worthwhile and cost effective. All Last Year here after my first few different versions of prototypes were made and successfully testing on my 911 & I had written about here; I have had approximately a total of 40-50 pelican people contact me here seriously interested in buying from me, but I kept intentionally putting them on hold & telling them to wait until I was ready to begin production & begin taking orders for shipment. Bear with me I am still writing & editing this and will try to finish my answer to you today or tomorrow Kind regards Reid |
time to put the tread back on topic
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The only snake oil here are the pot calling the kettle black with ZERO A/C KNOWLEDGE promoting their E-BAY CHINA FANS for 911s owners in the desert You keep posting off topic garbage here again tryng to cause trouble; after I have warned you to knock it off! You have been doing this to me for almost a year now, apparently its time for the forum moderators |
Reid,
If I may make a couple suggestions. There are many of us who would be in the market for a variety of AC components. Ignore those that question your ability or intent. They have proven to say things that show how clueless they actually are, there is no reason to respond. They only lower your credibility when you respond. I have a great system. Almost entirely Griffiths. I do use the ZIMs fender condenser and I do use the Rennaire Procooler. I am happy with its overall performance. The one thing I think would be of interest (to me) is a front fender mounted set up similar to the oil cooler but on the left side along with a ZIMS/Griffiths style rear fender condenser that together would replace the deck condenser which would lower oil temps when ambients are over 90. Not sure why no one has done this. Maybe there is a technical reason it wouldn't work. I think that the deck lid condenser and engine temps remain a weak link for all AC component companies, Griffiths and Rennaire included. I think if you focus there, you may have a market. Perhaps you should do a separate online poll. I probably would not be interested in a state of the art deck lid, as it would just add even more heat to the engine bay. The other suggestion i would make is that you start a new thread once they are in final production mode, with tech specs, tests results installed on a real car using the final production model, tested at 92 degrees or higher ambient, using the exact kit you will sell, so users dont need to scroll through 16 pages to get to the bottom line. Good luck to you.. Guys, give the guy a break. You think Griffith designed all his top notch products that everyone swears by in a few months. There have been years of R&D and many tweaks along the way. Lets see what the guy can do. If you don't want to buy, then don't. |
I've actually spoken with Reid on the phone, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until his R&D is finished and products are in service in "real world" situations (i.e., DIY installs, local shop installs, etc.).
Here's my suggestion: Reid, once you've got all of your parts ready for manufacture and/or sale, send a full set to a Pelican (I'll volunteer) and let him install them in his car and run some independent beta testing and report back to you and the community. If the products are as good as you claim them to be, then some "real world" testing would (hopefully) put the naysayers to rest. My $.02. |
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We're NOT idiots, stop treating us so....."it's complicated.." China "made"...like that PC you're typing on....? |
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But unlike you, it seems a number of Pelicans have tried my "suggested" solution sucessfully. |
911 a/c system filters
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Very Good and Very Important Question!!! I have waited almost a year for someone to ask about this since designing my A/C Filters! <smile> I completely agree with your guess, so let’s take this further into a bit more detail It’s unfortunate most people don’t know or understand about the IMPORTANCE of having a/c system protection filters so I would be happy to inform you. Your early 911 a/c system has NO FILTERS AND PEOPLE RARELY HAVE THE COMPRESSOR OIL CHANGED, and the compressor is the main moving part of your a/c system and it wears out in the similar ways as your car engine does. However your car engine has a good liquid oil filter and without this oil filter and regular oil changes and proper maintenance your car engine would not last very long, and it’s the same as you’re a/c compressor. Most people’s cars a/c compressor never get serviced until they stop working then people are forced to spend a lot of money to replace them, except all the newer ones which all now usually have a/c system filters. First I want to say that every major a/c component manufacturer more than strongly recommends that all a/c systems should have these filters installed to protect the a/c system and there are several reasons why they are needed; FYI ALL THE NEWER A/C SYSTEMS PROBABLY HAVE THEM! Furthermore I always strongly recommend using 2 special inline filters not just one with my PFC’s. But using only one inline is far better than NONE! My PFC’s have fairly small holes in the micro-channel tubes compared to older technology condenser tubes Second Because you probably do not know what is in the refrigeration and A/C TRADES called “A/C BLACK DEATH” and/or “REFRIGERATION BLACK DEATH” IS? You might want to try to Google it, and enlighten yourself to learn about this terrible phenomena that is more than likely in time, going to completely ruin your entire 911 A/C SYSTEM, and when it happens to you the cost to PROPERLY REPAIR IT, it’s GOING TO SHOCK YOU TO SAY THE LEAST! WHEN and if BLACK DEATH happens to you and it more than probably will. Black Death happening to your a/c system does many VERY BAD things to the entire insides of ALL of the refrigerants components the gasses internally pass through in most cases DURING THE phenomena of BLACK DEATH essentially destroying THE COMPONENTS to never again be as efficient as they were again! This basically means they will more than probably never again without replacement be able to achieve the lower temps they use to A/C SYSTEM BLACK DEATH IS THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO YOUR A/C SYSTEM; you may have smelled a refrigeration system BLACK DEATH in your local markets or convenience stores when food shopping and not known what it was. It has to be the most god awful smell that reeks throughout the store lf the converted gases come out of the refrigeration system into the air, and this smell does not go away easy even after the refideration system has been repaired. Special A/C line filters CAN GREATLY help prevent BLACK DEATH from occurring and/or if it still happens there is a much stronger chance various components can be salvaged and specially cleaned and reused. NOTE: I have decided I am going to require anyone who ends up buying my condensers at least initially at this time, that they must also install one of my custom made $50 special inline filters (“None Sight Glass”) type, if they want any kind of warranty for compressor or system failure by damage to the compressor; as I am not going to open myself up to getting sued for any metal particles that might be tried to be blamed on my PFC’s. Furthermore not using proper a/c system filter protection is really stupid and none of the early 911s never had any proper a/c system filters, and its time they did!! Now back to your question you asked me about “particles from seals/compressor out of the compressor” !!! Any Particles whatsoever contaminating the refrigerants gas and lubricant can develop into major problems and will be commonly found over time due to increase rapid mechanical wear degrading usually emanating or emulating from inside your compressor if you look carefully doing yearly or by-yearly proactive preventative maintenance with compressor oil change, Then there are the various types of seals either from inside the compressor, or from emanating or emulating from inside and through other various component parts that will more than likely soon lead to system breakdown and NO A/C, NOT to mention the additional cost of repairs labor and parts all that could been very well avoided for many years by installing special A/C Line System Protection Filters And your last question; “ but what does it do to pressures? “ Special inline a/c Filters should have no affect on pressures whatsoever ! Unless because there is/was/has been, so much excessive crap and debris within the refrigerants line passage way do to either a component failure and/or about to have a failure; or someone has injected severely contaminated refrigerant; and the filter DID ITS JOB IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO AND WAS COMPLETELY OVERWELMED WITH MASSIVE DEBRIS AND CLOGGED THE FILTER! NOTE: IF THE A/C FILTER/filters becomes completely clogged for any reason you will not have any cold coming OUT OF your air vents at all Let me say this, if you have unusual pressures and everything seems to be working properly and/or your not sure about anything, the first thing you should always do is suck out the refrigerant and fully inspect the filter and then always clean it and reinstall it, vacuum the a/c system properly reinstall the proper amount of refrigerant and start the a/c system back up again, then re-check the pressures again which should tell you how good your a/c system is now working or not working. You may have just found out your a/c filter just saved you a large headache This was not in your questions so I will add it, You also do not have high and low safety cut out switches on your early 911 a/c system, that disconnects your compressor clutch that turns the shaft of your compressor or turns its off for safety reasons if the pressures are too low or too high and I would recommend you add these too to further protect you’re a/c system! Best regards, Reid |
what brand do you recommend and/or where can we get the a/c line filters & a/c hi and lo safety cut out switches...??
Thx, Bob |
Did freezers and 'frig's of >40 years ago have refrigerant filters...? Mine seem to be still working so they must have. I know of at least 4 LS400's, a '91, 2 '92's, and a '95, all with well over 200K miles, that still have fully functional A/C systems. Plus a couple of air-to-air heat pumps that were installed back when the house was built in the late 70's.
Yes, compressor moving parts wear, but the resulting "fines" settle to the bottom of the reservoir and stay there. Comparing a gasoline engine's oil contamination with a SEALED A/C system strike's me as a bit of a stretch.... |
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The whole bit about the patent and "not selling" and all kinds of claims - I think that Porsche owners would be better served by going with someone who has been there for Porsche AC upgrades for a long time, and has a proven track record of excellent customer service. Reid's sales pitch is, as the kids say these days, weaksauce. |
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I have custom designed my own A/C filters I use in relationship to the PF condensers I make; I am not sure what to tell you about A/C FILTER BRAND? As far as the hi and lo safety cut out switches goes I get mine from a major A/C distributor near me, they are commonly availible; however you would have to also get a filter dryer that has addional connection port fitting for the pressure switches. |
thx...can you post or email me pics of the filter & its cost...Thx, Bob
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