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ratpiper71T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
These are the shiznit, too:



Scotch-Brite™ Clean and Strip XT Disc TN Quick Change.



They come in multiple sizes @ 4.5" and 7" diameter. Nielsen used these on the '67. The combo of your "manbrator" and these will work well, since the discs are kind of expensive. I think HF has knock offs, but haven't tried them yet.
Good tip on the disks, haven't seen those particular ones before.
"Manbrator!" Oh Yeah, I'm stealing that.
Old 07-13-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveHak View Post
I love the color. How come 2 batteries? never seen that before.
Standard fare for early LWB cars. Most removed one over the years, but having two is nice for balance and extra juice.
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- 1966 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 07-13-2011, 08:33 AM
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The HF versions of the disc work well but they all wear way too fast. I guess not enough abrasive in the matrix. The Wagner versions last the longest.

They suck for removing undercoating but will leave a nice shiny bare metal finish when stripping paint.

The manbrator is great for undercoating and floor "tar" coatings. I also use a knotted wire brush. In this case the HF versions last just as long as DeWalt or other name brand.

So Brian, Are you going to paint the car this time around or just fix the rust and put it back on the road. There is something about original patina that can NEVER be reproduced.
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71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:34 AM
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Jamie, thanks for the pointers. My rookie status means that I need the same thing explained to me a few different ways I am getting anxious to start!

I am going to try the HF grinding wheels. The 3M ones seem to be very expensive and they want you to commit to another mounting system. I have lots of the paddle type wheels but they are extremely aggressive. I have been using the Norton Rapid STRIP wheels for years now and they work very well..
.
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bryan
1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653
Old 07-13-2011, 01:34 PM
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Bryan,
I'll look through my stash of sheet metal. Just sold my Factory Tank support, but I think I still have one control arm support. I don't think you have gotten here yet...Got one fender jam support that mounts the fender on the door end. Don't know what shape your bumper is in? Got a REALLY NICE one with deco trim and guards. Well be talking soon im sure! Pace yourself......You can burn-out....Your wife or GF will burn out quicker!
Kelly
Old 07-13-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kt911rs View Post
Bryan,
I'll look through my stash of sheet metal. Just sold my Factory Tank support, but I think I still have one control arm support. I don't think you have gotten here yet...Got one fender jam support that mounts the fender on the door end. Don't know what shape your bumper is in? Got a REALLY NICE one with deco trim and guards. Well be talking soon im sure! Pace yourself......You can burn-out....Your wife or GF will burn out quicker!
Kelly
Thanks Kelly!
Keep me posted. I still have to strip the suspension and get the car lifted high enough to work on so I might be a couple weeks out but I would like to get set up in the next week or so. So far my structural rust damage looks like it is primarily into the lower left corner under the battery box. (crossing fingers) The seal channels, fenders etc. above that seem pretty solid but expect to have to trim back the thin sheet metal until I have decent thickness to weld to. Sheesh, will I have to invest in a sheet metal shrinker? I have not pulled out the seats/carpet yet...or looked at the rear torque tubes
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bryan
1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653

Last edited by combatic; 07-13-2011 at 03:53 PM.. Reason: .....forgot to say something
Old 07-13-2011, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combatic View Post
Thanks Kelly!
Keep me posted. I still have to strip the suspension and get the car lifted high enough to work on so I might be a couple weeks out but I would like to get set up in the next week or so. So far my structural rust damage looks like it is primarily into the lower left corner under the battery box. (crossing fingers) The seal channels, fenders etc. above that seem pretty solid but expect to have to trim back the thin sheet metal until I have decent thickness to weld to. Sheesh, will I have to invest in a sheet metal shrinker? I have not pulled out the seats/carpet yet...or looked at the rear torque tubes
Bryan, don't you want to leave the old suspension on to align the new tank support?
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'66 911 #303872
Old 07-13-2011, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by combatic View Post
...or looked at the rear torque tubes
When you check the tubes, make sure to inspect the top front of the tube next to the rear seat bottoms. In these old cars, the tubes can look great from the bottoms, but rust out on the tops. This results in a perfectly good looking tube snapping. See Catastrophic chassis failure! What now?

Even if it does look good, you might consider some drainage holes (the thread above points them out) and perhaps some of the torsion tube reinforcements offered in later tubes. See this thread for a drawing and some photos of the reinforcements : Cracked torsion bar tube.

Lastly, another thread that might be of interest as far as chassis reinforcement, is this rather lengthy thread : Structural Reinforcement It has many suggestions to reinforce the early chassis, and lengthy discussions on seam welding/stitch welding the panels. Might be useful to read as you're getting started. If you're going to be in any of those areas making repairs, you can make some structural upgrades while you're there.

Edit: I'm not an expert, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt. I wish the people who owned the '68 before me had read the above threads, though.
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Last edited by Rotmilky; 07-13-2011 at 06:35 PM..
Old 07-13-2011, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Lambert View Post
Bryan, don't you want to leave the old suspension on to align the new tank support?
Rich, my step by step process that I plan to take is as follows. Does this jive with what you were thinking?

Before I start anything I need to see if the alignment is in spec' in the first place based on the original plans. The tank support/s may have been replaced sometime in the past 42 years. If this all checks out then I will move to step one below.

JACK UP AND POSITION CAR FOR THE DURATION OF THE PAN REPLACEMENT PROCESS
links on how and where to do that -->
jack point for front suspension upgrade
Lifting Points


1. Measure and establish my datum points and centerline to measure.

2. Annotate suspension mount point locations from datum points and Z height (height from floor) before front A arm mounts are removed (like this note- Jack stands will not be located at the rear A arm mount points as shown)

3. Drill out spot welds and remove suspension pan first (?) and transverse tank support. Then lateral supports as needed. Laterals may get trimmed back and new pieces scabbed in as needed.

4. inspect and cut back uni-body to weldable steel and prep. (NOTE- I may have to wait to cut back areas so that I have some reference as to where the new scabbed in pieces would go)

5. Install and align new suspension pan WITH A arms attached. Locate the assembly vertically then tack in place to make stable. (I may make a jig to help hold and align b/c the arms will want to fall)

6. scab in and build back up the unibody where needed. and dress weld areas. (re-measure everything)

7. fit lateral supports and tack. fit and weld in suspension supports (very important! before the transverse tank goes in!!) fit transverse tank support and tack.

8. RE-MEASURE and ALIGN suspension! Coax alignment as needed.

9. Slowly weld up seams starting from the center out alternating sides and locations to not build up too much heat and warp alignment. (re-measure everything periodically) My plan is to stitch weld longer beads for structural support and added rigidity once the individual pieces are fully tacked at the spot welds.

10. Dress welds (grind/deburr)

11. start the coating/seam seal process.


I am open to suggestions. But this is what I have been mulling over. I will amend this process probably as I get comments and actually start getting elbow deep in the process.
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bryan
1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653

Last edited by combatic; 07-14-2011 at 09:46 PM.. Reason: edits in pan resto process
Old 07-14-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotmilky View Post
When you check the tubes, make sure to inspect the top front of the tube next to the rear seat bottoms. In these old cars, the tubes can look great from the bottoms, but rust out on the tops. This results in a perfectly good looking tube snapping. See Catastrophic chassis failure! What now?

Even if it does look good, you might consider some drainage holes (the thread above points them out) and perhaps some of the torsion tube reinforcements offered in later tubes. See this thread for a drawing and some photos of the reinforcements : Cracked torsion bar tube.

Lastly, another thread that might be of interest as far as chassis reinforcement, is this rather lengthy thread : Structural Reinforcement It has many suggestions to reinforce the early chassis, and lengthy discussions on seam welding/stitch welding the panels. Might be useful to read as you're getting started. If you're going to be in any of those areas making repairs, you can make some structural upgrades while you're there.

Edit: I'm not an expert, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt. I wish the people who owned the '68 before me had read the above threads, though.
Great sources for the Torque tubes and what to look for. I will certainly be addressing and inspecting those areas!

I am highly interested in adding appropriate structural upgrades. I intend to upgrade to a street/track T-Bar strut set up and there will be a rollbar installed with harness bar and GTS ST seats. (I know those fit me perfectly). I will add proper gusetting and upgrade the mount locations etc. when I start to cross that bridge in the cabin. The tank area will get a review for structural upgrades before I refinish. I will need to consult with everyone to make sure my upgrades work in concert with the rollbar and suspension goals. Thanks Von!
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1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653

Last edited by combatic; 07-14-2011 at 09:37 AM..
Old 07-14-2011, 09:27 AM
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Shouldn't you give it some thought before you just jump in all willy-nilly? Never mind what I said, you seem to have a handle on it.

Just for the record, I never used the word "datum" once during the whole time I was replacing the pan on my car.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Lambert View Post
Shouldn't you give it some thought before you just jump in all willy-nilly? Never mind what I said, you seem to have a handle on it.

Just for the record, I never used the word "datum" once during the whole time I was replacing the pan on my car.
Sometimes I play an engineer on TV I just wanted to get out what was rattling around in my head to see if it makes sense. Von's link he sent me on structural reinforcement has got my info hopper on overload. I need to take a look at your strut bar/mount locations and get some measurements at some point...I think I have time....A lot of stuff to do in the coming weeks.
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1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653
Old 07-14-2011, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by combatic View Post
Sometimes I play an engineer on TV I just wanted to get out what was rattling around in my head to see if it makes sense. Von's link he sent me on structural reinforcement has got my info hopper on overload. I need to take a look at your strut bar/mount locations and get some measurements at some point...I think I have time....A lot of stuff to do in the coming weeks.
C'mon up!
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Lambert View Post
Just for the record, I never used the word "datum" once during the whole time I was replacing the pan on my car.
I'm sure I did. That, and every other word in both the English and German languages, and some I kind of made up along the way.

Bryan, your plan looks solid. Measure and record everything before disturbing anything. Make sure your notes and diagrams make sense a few days after generating them - they will always seem to make sense that day, when it's all fresh in your mind. If you can still decipher them in a few days, they are good enough to go with.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins View Post
I'm sure I did. That, and every other word in both the English and German languages, and some I kind of made up along the way.

Bryan, your plan looks solid. Measure and record everything before disturbing anything. Make sure your notes and diagrams make sense a few days after generating them - they will always seem to make sense that day, when it's all fresh in your mind. If you can still decipher them in a few days, they are good enough to go with.
Good advice! Thanks Jeff. What did you guys use to take your measurements with? I have some longer straight edges but I want to establish if the existing set up is correct and aligned.
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1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653
Old 07-14-2011, 11:53 AM
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I don't see no updates...7 days and counting.
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- 1966 911
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:33 AM
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Day 13 || Suspension Removal
21July11
Well Kenik, it is slow going. Finding time to work has been rough the past two weeks and I ran into issues removing the ball joints and the top nuts on the struts because I didn’t have the right tools. Eventually I borrowed a pickle fork for the ball joints and soaked the top nut on the struts with a PB Blaster then torched them to expand the nut then zapped it with my torque wrench and the nuts finally broke loose. (Thanks Brandon for the tip!). Now the struts are stripped off and I need to build up a jig to locate the front of the A-arms. Once that is built up I will remove the jig and start removing the supports. All the sheet metal has been ordered from RD which was recommended to me by multiple people and the prices were competitive which is great b/c I am on a budget.

As you can see there is going to be some metal forming and fab involved b/c the rust has gotten up into the uni-body. I will want to form that metal up before I get to carried away with removing the rusted out sections so that I can replicate the corners and the compound surfaces. Does anyone have a shrinker/stretcher I can borrow I am also pondering removing the battery boxes and fabricating plates with ribbing to replace the boxes for future oil coolers and the remove weight?











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1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653
Old 07-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:03 PM
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Day 29 || Donor Car
5Aug11
Last week a car came up that had to be brought home. The car is a ’69T with deep 6’s, the original 2.0 with Webbers and a 2.7 with Webbers installed in the car which supposedly ran the last time it was stowed. This car sat for the last 8 years and the PO never got around to fixing the tank supports and pans (which it desperately needs). If the motor and/or tranny checkout I plan to use them until I am able to build up my hotrod motor. Other little bits here and there will also go into the BHR as needed.
On another note, sheet metal for the tank supports finally arrived from RD so I should be able to get back on task this weekend and start cutting out the rest of the tank pans.

Thanks Trace for coming over on short notice and helping offload!




Anyone need a whale tail?

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bryan
1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653
Old 08-05-2011, 08:23 AM
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Day 32 || Removing the pans and laterals
8Aug11
I finally had a full day to work on sheet metal removal and did a test fit to see how the new pan will look. For some of the spot welds I used a 1/4 drill to simply drill through the welds b/c my spot weld cutter would not play nice in areas were there was an uneven surface. I will weld up the holes and planish and/or grind them down later. This is not fun job but I am starting to see the how things will go back together and that is a good feeling!

decided cut the pan into pieces to make the removal easier


hours later....






tank pan and laterals trimmed back and ready to weld as soon as I finish trimming the new pan to fit the old sheet metal after aligning the A-arms to the centerline. I have some fab work to connect the main unibody sheet metal back to the new pan (note upper left and right hand corners by the battery boxes). I am not looking forward to doing this but maybe I can find some serviceable sections from a car that is getting parted...
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1969 911T , '04 S2000, '96 900SS, 4x4 urban assault vehicle
R Gruppe #653
Old 08-08-2011, 12:17 PM
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