o2 sensor and CA smog questions

[nkotselas]

I posted this question on a separate thread recently but didn't get any positive responses. I have a euro 3.2 in a euro sc. Neither of which had a o2 sensor originally. I believe one was fitted at the same time the cat was installed to pass the smog here. I have a premuffler I was going to install that does not have the o2 sensor hole. Can I just leave it off since it was never needed on the engines I had? Is it needed to pass smog inspection?

Also, I just looked up the penalties for not having a cat. $2500 max fine and a misdemeanor, even a felony if you are really unlucky. I'm starting to get a bit nervous about this now. Should I still go through with it? It does look like a cat after all. Has anyone been checked outside of the station and do the mechanics that work on our cars care? They are supposed to report all cars with out a cat.

I've seen guys like Joe Bob saying SSI's are dual cats. If that passes inspection then a premuffler should be a walk in the park right??? I hope

Thanks for the input in advance!

[stlrj]

If you go for it, you'll be able to let us know if they really are enforcing the $2500 fine.

[Joe Bob]

The motoronic EFI needs an O2 sensor. Welding a bung on the pipe is easy.

[nkotselas]

This is where I get confused. Shouldn't the engine run fine/better without the sensor because that is how they were originally made? How can I follow the wire to see if it is actually connected somewhere?

[89turbocabmike]

Nick, obviously your going to need the cat for smog inspections but i have yet to see someone with a early 911 get in trouble. Generally those getting cited are pulled over for other infractions,speeding, reckless driving, loud exhaust, tinted windows, no front plate etc and are generally driving something newer and from outward appearance modified. I get a few customers every month that get pulled over for some other reason and during the stop ask the driver to rev the car up as he stands behind the car. This is to confirm "illegal exhaust modification and to smell for unburnt gas(high flow cat/no cat). Either which way you get a citation requiring a trip to a smog referee. My Audi customers get a bit less hassled as their cars at least visually are a bit more subdued? I'm not sure of the legality of these stops, but they do happen. I use to dyno tune 2-3 Nissan 240sx/SR20/RB20-26 drift-style cars a week a few years ago, but many of the guys have sold their cars because not only have they become difficult to smog, but they get pulled over and inspected just because it's assumed they are illegally modified.
I don't think you have anything to really be worried about at this time. All the mechanics I've known in my 20 yrs in the repair business want and need your business and have no reason to hassle you. Yes, they should warn you of the illegality but I don't know of anyone ever reporting someone. The key obviously is to show up for your smog inspection with whatever equipment was originally required for federalization(grey market). Smog techs in CA are under ever increasing pressure/fear to report these things as CARB has under cover vehicles it uses to check. At this time thought they only seem to be targeting vehicles like ours with tougher tailpipe standards.
Ditto what Joe Bob said:-)

[Brando]

Your chances for being cited only increase logrythmically with your level of recklessnes driving. Typically you can run a pre-muffler (instead of a CAT) except when it comes time to smog test. If you have a well functioning CAT you should be able to pass the emissions test.

Of course I would *never* promote or condone such actions...

[nkotselas]

Thanks for the advice guys,

I took a look at the car and found this:







You can see the sensor going into the cat and into the engine bay (pic 1). Then you see it from inside the engine bay (pic 2) then you see where it stops shortly after (pic 3).

Where do the wires usually go from this point? Should I still install the bung in my premuffler since the sensor is not hooked up?

[Lorenfb]

"The motoronic EFI needs an O2 sensor."

Which assumes that the DME ECM has the O2 function implemented.
And that's a big assumption, since the engine is a Euro engine and
most/all come with (had) Euro ECMs without the O2 function.

So if the vehicle lacks the proper ECM, most likely it won't pass
an emissions test, i.e. the O2 sensor will have no effect, and will
over time ruin a good CAT.

[nkotselas]

Thanks Loren,
The car had past smog the last 20 + years with the sc motor, just don't know if it will with the 3.2. I have confirmed that the Motronic box is original euro version. The o2 has not been custom made to work with it. Does that mean I am still damaging the cat? I suppose it was only installed to lower the smog numbers and the o2 sensor to pass inspection. Would that be right?

[Lorenfb]

"have confirmed that the Motronic box is original euro version."

So you probably have '051' Euro ECM, right?

"The o2 has not been custom made to work with it"

Some Euro ECMs were modified when some 'gray market' cars came to the USA.
If the sticker indicates '051' most likely it wasn't modified.

"Does that mean I am still damaging the cat?"

Yes, over the long term and it may even overheat because of a high CO mixture.

"I suppose it was only installed to lower the smog numbers and the o2 sensor to pass inspection. Would that be right?"

You're right. I've seen that situation a number of times.

[nkotselas]

You are correct is a "051" box seems to be unmodified.
Thanks for the help Loren