Valve adjust question - no rocker movement

[jlynch1960]

Doing my first valve adjustment. For the most part everything has been going fine albeit slowly (engine in the car). I'm setting the valves with the feeler gauge and then checking with the backside method.

However, on the #2 cylinder exhaust valve and the #3 intake, even with the adjustment screw fully backed out, I could not get the rocker to budge - my method has been to back the screw off three or four turns, create a fairly large gap and then get the gauge in and then tighten down onto the gauge.

I tried rotating the crankcase back to the correct position in both instances - same issue.

Finally, just went to a spot in the cam rotation where I was certain the rocker was not on the lobe and did the adjustment there.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? Any advice?

[Jesse16]

Does not make sense, are you saying the rocker does have movement someplace else ? In that case, you're not in the correct position where you think things are. The rocker should be "loose" in one position every cam turn. All the rest of the way, the cam should be tight on the rocker. Where its loose has to be the right position. Do some careful looking at your positions and which valve is opening and closing at each 120 degree mark. Sure I'm not explaining this the best way, others are much more experienced.
I kinda cheat my valve job by turning the motor clockwise to whichever 120 degree mark is closest and then going around and wiggling each rocker, if its loose, I adjust it and keep a little log going 1-12. Two more 120 degree turns and you should have checked/adjusted all 12. (I think thats right) I've not had a "tight" valve on my old engine.

[jlynch1960]

With 10 of 12 valves, I was able to back the adjustment screw off significantly so that I could actually get the feeler gauge into the (big) gap created by backing it out a good ways. I need a big gap to get the feeler in.

With the two valves I referred to, backing out the screw would still not allow the rocker to move up and down to create the gap I need to get the gauge in. I double checked the distributor and crankcase reference marks and re-rotated to the correct position each time, but still could not get the rocker to move. Even tried tapping on it (gently). I checked against Wayne's book and Bentley's and even drew myself a little 360 degree diagram with the cylinders marked at the 120 degree marks so I'm sure I was on the correct mark for each valve.

Strange that 10 would go fine and two would give me so much trouble.

[agfours]

In that you were able to adjust the other valve for each cylinder, it indicates to me that it's not a case of the crank rotation being incorrect.

I'm not the expert, but I'll throw out there the obvious, that there is another worn part causing the train to be out of spec - i.e. valve keeper, valve guide, valve seat, valve stem, rocker, rocker shaft... I'm not knowledgable enough to tell you what the most probable case would be - for that I'll let others 'guide' the discussion.

[cgarr]

Can you tighten the adjuster down to open the valve slightly then back it out and see if it will move? It would be rare to have the rocker frozen on the shaft. You should be able to see if it's on the low side of the cam pretty easy.


Sent from my iPhone

[Kevin Stewart]

most people bend the end of feeler gauge or use a 911 gauge

[jlynch1960]

Yeah, this is weird. I went back out to the car to try #2 again.

I've tried backing the adjustment screw all the way out and then going all the way back in.

What's noticeable is that the screw never starts to turn freely - if fact there's a fair amount of pressure on it. It seems obvious that the rocker is on the lobe, the valve is partially depressed and the resistance on the adjustment screw is the force of the spring pressing the valve onto the screw. I can rotate the crank to a random spot where a gap does open up and I can then freely move the rocker, but that spot is not at 240*.

I've re-rotated the crankshaft three times to the 240* point on the distributor which lines up with a mark on the crank pulley. (I cannot locate a Z1 mark on the crank pulley at 0* - if it's there (3.2 Carrera) it is obscured by the AC compressor pulley.

As I understand it 0*equals TDC for #1 and #4, 120* is #6 and #3 and 240* is #2 and #5. O* is under the #1 spark plug wire and the notch in the distributor at that location points toward the fan. Each of the distributor locations (obviously approximate for 120* and 240*) lines up with a mark on the pulley.

As I said, I was also having the same issue with the #3 intake.

Does it sound like the whole camshaft timing is off on the left side? Seems improbable given that the engine ran fine, drew strongly etc. I'd think a bent valve would be pretty obvious to detect audibly.

Surely, I must be doing something wrong?

[cgarr]

Pull the dist cap and roll it around till the rotor is pointing at that cylinder, there should be a mark on the pulley near that spot then check the valves for that cylinder.

[CCM911]

Also, you can put a wooden dowel into the sparkplug hole. When it is fully out, you'll be at TDC.

[lindy 911]

The marks on the pulley line up with the case seam or straight up as viewed from the rear of the car. You can only adjust one cylinder at a time for any given crank position. Even though #1 and #4 are at top dead center at Z1, one is at the top of the compression stroke (which is where it needs to be for adjustment) and the other is at the top of the exhaust stroke. Here is how I do it:.

1. Rotate the crank clockwise until you see the intake valve on #1 start to open. Continue to rotate the crank until you get to Z1 or "0" on the crank pulley (the rotor will also point to the #1 spark plug wire).

2. Adjust IN & EX on #1

3. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #6

4. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #2

5. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #4

6. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #3

7. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #5

[jlynch1960]

Thanks Lindy, but I'm doing exactly what you describe EXCEPT-

I cannot verify that TDC on No 1 corresponds to Z1 on the pulley - There is no Z1 mark on the pulley rim that can be seen because of the AC pulley in front (behind) it. However mark on back rim of pulley lines up with mark on fan housing, distributor is in the No 1 position and No 1 adjusts fine.

PROBLEM IS NO 2 EXHAUST AND NO 3 INTAKE ARE ON THE CAM LOBES WHEN THEY SHOULD BE AT TDC after making the necessary rotations of the crankcase pulley. There is firm resistance on the adjustment screw in and out in each case indicating, I believe, that the valve is depressed and the valve spring is causing the resistance.

If there is a difference between TDC for the compression and exhaust strokes (per Lindy's reply) why would Nos 1, 4, 5 and 6 all work fine, but 2 and 3 be out of wack?

[lindy 911]

Is #2 EX and #3 IN on the lobe or on the cam circle? If they are actually on the lobe you have a screwed up cam. If they are on the circle the stem has become closer to the rocker some how. It could be that the seat is worn or the valve surface is burned.

The TDC you are looking for is after the IN has closed but before the EX starts to open; the compression stroke top. This is the point where the cylinder will fire. One way to tell TDC for #1 is to again watch for #1 IN to start to move. Make a mark on the pulley, then turn 360 degrees. That will put you within a few degrees of TDC #1 compression stroke.

[dfink]

Ok if the cams are installed correctly in the car. We will assume they are the process is simple. Pull all the valve covers off. Unless you have not drained the oil. Put the engine on the Z mark. Check the valves on number 1 and number 4 one side or the other should have both valves loose the other side not. If both sides are loose or tight your cams are out of time. You don't even have to move them up and down just try and see if they wiggle side to side. If you want to do them in order and 4 on the right is loose then rotate the engine another 360 and recheck. Now for the really fun question. How certain are you of the engine. Is it possible that the cams are 180 out. The engine will run that way. I know a guy who ran for two years that way. That would however really screw with your valve adjust method. Also you should not have to back the adjusters out all the way.

[BKC]

If its possible to be on the Z1 mark but not on the distributor mark then it must be possible to be on the distributor mark but not on the Z1 mark (which you can't find).

I experienced this non movement of rockers when I had my car on the Z1 mark but the distributor was 180* off of its mark. I had to go around again to get them both to line up. (I didn't even realize that that was possible!)

I'm not smart enough to figure out if this same scenario would cause your issue but you gotta find #1 TDC. (Z1)

[DRACO A5OG]

Can you post a pic of your Dizzy when you believe it is at TDC? If you have the patience, maybe pics of all positions, just to make certain???

No mark? strange, I wounder how the PO or wrenches did the valve adjust if there was no mark.

This may sound silly but are you certain the belt on the pully is turning the crank, certain cylinders are tighter than others and it requires you to put some pre-load on the belt to make the crank turn. Just a brain fart.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by lindy 911

The marks on the pulley line up with the case seam or straight up as viewed from the rear of the car. You can only adjust one cylinder at a time for any given crank position. Even though #1 and #4 are at top dead center at Z1, one is at the top of the compression stroke (which is where it needs to be for adjustment) and the other is at the top of the exhaust stroke. Here is how I do it:.

1. Rotate the crank clockwise until you see the intake valve on #1 start to open. Continue to rotate the crank until you get to Z1 or "0" on the crank pulley (the rotor will also point to the #1 spark plug wire).

2. Adjust IN & EX on #1

3. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #6

4. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #2

5. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #4

6. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #3

7. Rotate crank 120 degrees and adjust #5

it sounds like you have adjusted the valves with the crank 180 off, or, you just have very very tight valves.
start over and follow the above. you cant just line up TDC for #1 and go for it.
one other thing, make sure you are adjusting the correct cylinder, IE, if you have the crank set for #2, make sure you are on #2. as of lately, for some reason when i am suppose to be doing #4 i keep trying to do #5. (brain farts i guess). but the dead give away is that the cam lobe is on the rocker.

[Tippy]

Maybe you didn't start on true TDC?

[dfink]

OK one more thought. Are you rotating the crank the correct direction . I did this when tired one night and kept going the wrong direction. Drove me nuts (short trip) The result was pretty much as you indicate. You must turn the crank clockwise as viewed from the rear of the engine.

[BKC]

And I forgot to rotate 120* altogether once before moving on to the next set.....

[Rot 911]

I suspect you are not using Z1 to start with and everything is off from there. Not sure what engine you have, but I seem to recall you have a 3.2. Here is a nice picture showing the correct location of the timing marks: