Reverse Brake Bleeding Field Test Results = BEWARE...

[DRACO A5OG]

... You will need to re-learn how to drive with Harder Brakes

Sorry couldn't help myself :-P

Okay Fellas,

First, I need to thank my Wifey for recording the video for us, Quiero Mucho Baby!

Here are the results of the Reverse Brake Bleed system by Phoenix Systems. I was truly trying to make this thing fail but.... read on

>>>Product[: V12 DIY Bleeder $65<<<

>>>Issue: Soft Brake Feel and Slow Brake Light Response<<<

>>>Previous Attempted Bleeding Techniques after Caliper Re-build<<<: Vacuum, Pressure, 2 Man Team (attempted minimum of three times and heck of allot of Brake Fluid)

First off, I did everything in the rule book after re-building my calipers and special techniques given by some outstanding Vets (you know who you are, I am very grateful) here but, I came to the realization my brakes were SOFT. Don't get me wrong they stop on a dime when in a pinch, but the 1st half of pedal travel was a bit worrying.

Recently, a buddy of mine came over to work on his '77 911s with some clutch/trans issues. He drove my car to compare the 915 trans and to his shock the brakes were much softer than his and it took him off guard. FUCH! I knew something was wrong but the last 2 Man team went well and I truly thought all the air was out, but sadly no.

The verification was my brake lights, I have Daniel Stern's LED 3rd light upgrade so I can see the response time of my brakes. I know it was not my Brake Light Switches because I had my Brake Light Switch Arc Suppressor installed to eliminate any failure in them, ever. The switches were responding slowly and at the middle of my brake pedal travel NOT GOOD, FUCHITY FUCH FUCH!

So I pulled the trigger and thought I give it a try, after speaking to Jim, the developer of the Reverse Bleeder, after a lengthy conversation, what convinced me to use it was the maximum 10lb pressure the device pushes into the brake line system so there would be no risk of contaminants/debris getting into the MC. Too many respected Vets warned about the potential contamination. Jim explained, when people compress the calipers, doing so promotes the potential for contaminants/debris to be pushed up to the MC's. His device will not. Sales pitch or fact, I will certainly see if I push poo poo up the MC.

The Kit:



Pretty complete, it can also do the Vacuum and a better Pressure bleed. IMO, I wrote better because you do not have to worry about filling the reservoir or keeping the minimum pressure, it is all controlled by the pump which is tapped into the Brake Fluid container. Not only that, it works for bench bleeding MCs. Please note, it was an observation, I only tested the Reverse Bleed Technique.

Used a large syringe to remove some of the existing fluid out of the reservoir.

Primed the reverse bleeder until fluid came out the filler cap, wrench then on the release valve, This minimizes new air into the system.

The Test:

Click Pics to watch the Video, look carefully at the catch screen on video 2 & 3.

Passenger Rear:



No Air Bubbles, Fuch, I just got ripped off, Doh!

Driver Rear:



Air Bubbles, Really??? OMG, no way!

Passenger Front:



More Air Bubbles, Holy Fuch! Poop must be broken, I thought to self.

Driver Front:



No Air Bubbles

Went over it again just to make certain. NO AIR BUBBLES appeared in the reservoir ALL AROUND! FUCH YEAH!

So now the Road Test:

Jumped in her and pressed the brake pedal while the car was off. Prior to bleedings, the pedal was a bit soft then would harden after 1-2 pumps. This time it was hard on the first pump. OK, Good but still skeptical.

Started her, again expecting the brakes to feel soft on the first pump. Nope HARD. Okay I am starting to smile. I also noticed the brake light came on immediately. In fact, the LED 3rd light flickered as soon as my foot was on the pedal then soon as I started to depress the pedal all lights came on.

Test Drive....................................CONFIRMED, Harder Brake Feel and Brake Lights ON immediately.

Take what you will from this but this thing really does work and I am going to tackle my son's ABS Brake System, his is really soft to the floor.

Rock Hard Brakes, Priceless!

Jim

[80-911SC]

nice write up ... sounds like the cure ...

PS let me know when you do another hwy 49 drive ....

Steve

[DRACO A5OG]

HWY 49, It was awesome, on my way back on HWY 4 a dude in a gold Carrera with what sounded like a open exhaust passed by

[Bob Kontak]

Did I pick up an audible expletive in the driver rear video?

[DRACO A5OG]

Good ear, I did not open the valve enough and the fill cap popped off under pressure freaked out that it may have gotten on my paint, but luckily no.

[Vincent Hill]

I was told Years ago that in Detroit they fill the MC from the Bleed screws. SInce the 1970's when I had Hurst/ Airheart Brakes with clear lines (You could always see the Bubbles in the lines) I would take a Oil Squirt can and put a plastic hose on it and fill the hose full of brake fluid. I then would push it on the Bleed screw and open the screw and pump from the farthest away to the closest to the MC. THEN I would always pump up the pedal and secure it (Usually some kind of rod) down using the Steering wheel and let it sit over night! (On a Motorcycle I would wrap Duct Tape around the lever on the Master Cylinder to the Handle bar.

Putting the system under this kind of pressure forces the trapped air that is "ALWAYS" around any edge or corner to work its way up to the MC where the Bladder allows it to take up space. Then you have ROck Hard Brakes. DO not forget to either disc the brake light switch or battery!

[DRACO A5OG]

Apparenty Pheonix System supplies the US Army for their vehicles. The developer explained a soldier jokingly said at the demo to bleed a Howitzer , he responded "does it have bleed screw and reservoir?" The XO replied yes and they went and bled it. I think that sealed the deal

[timmy2]

Where did you get it from for $65?

[DRACO A5OG]

Ooops I meant $67.95 free shipping at Auto Anything Phoenix V12 Brake Bleeder Kit, Phoenix Systems V-12 Brake Bleeder - Videos, Installations & Reviews

[timmy2]

Ok, that's what I found and I was wondering if you had another source.
Always looking to save a buck or 2 when I can, so I can get more parts!
Thanks,
Looks like it's a good device.

[DRACO A5OG]

LOL, Me three

On my 3.2 I found the syringe will only take out a little over 3 pumps at the caliper.

Instructions stated 10 pumps on 1st caliper then 6 on the remaining. I did 12 then 6.

What I really like is the efficiency of this system on Fluid use, I did the bleed twice ( just to be safe but was not necessary, it is just me )and only used half a can, that is the least I ever used ever bleeding/flushing the brakes. Very pleased

[timmy2]

I ordered one, it will see a lot of service with my 911 and eventually my 442. And the other daily driver rigs around here...
(Why do I own 2 numbers cars? Hmmmm must be a personality disorder.....)

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by timmy2

I ordered one, it will see a lot of service with my 911 and eventually my 442. And the other daily driver rigs around here...
(Why do I own 2 numbers cars? Hmmmm must be a personality disorder.....)

LOL, I am a member too

ES300
190E

If you have any questions or concerns PM me.

The only thing I had an concern was the final burping stage, the developer explained while it is under pressure the fluid is pushed up and once the fill cap is removed it will burp out any potential air pocket and then when you see a steady flow, close the valve. I used a mirror and flash light to monitor it.

[timmy2]

Thanks for the offer, I'll do that if I have a need.
Now I have to go back and listen for your cursing in the videos...

[DRACO A5OG]

LOL, You should hear me when i was doing the two man team on the damn 190E ABS system, my neighbor came by and asked me to keep the cursing down

Fuch Yeah

[sc_rufctr]

DRACO... You're a legend. Thanks for the demo and write up.

Someone should ask Wayne to stock these.

Also... looking at their web page they have three different versions.
The pro one looks nice but I couldn't justify the cost for occasional use.

------------------------------------

I've been using this one for a few years... It works by sucking brake fluid through the bleed screw. It works OK but it's a bit clumsy/big.

Depending on how I go with the V-12, it may soon be relegated to sucking excess fluid from the reservoir only.

[kanadary]

Jim, nice write up. you mention you have a 190E. is it a 2.6? if so, are you interested in a few oil filters and misc stuff i have for mine before i sold it. its free. pm me if you're interested.

[DRACO A5OG]

If I had to buy it again I would get the kit for $144, much cleaner and orginized and the metal spring handle would be better IMHO, Plastic is just so plastic

+1 Wayne should stock these, they really do work and I am willing to go to their office and demonstrate. No worries I have no affiliation to Pheonix. Just want to make sure pelicans do not have to suffer a soft brake,

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

DRACO... You're a legend. Thanks for the demo and write up.

Someone should ask Wayne to stock these.

Also... looking at their web page they have three different versions.
The pro one looks nice but I couldn't justify the cost for occasional use.

------------------------------------

I've been using this one for a few years... It works by sucking brake fluid through the bleed screw. It works OK but it's a bit clumsy/big.

Depending on how I go with the V-12, it may soon be relegated to sucking excess fluid from the reservoir only.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

If I had to buy it again I would get the kit for $144, much cleaner and orginized and the metal spring handle would be better IMHO, Plastic is just so plastic

+1 Wayne should stock these, they really do work and I am willing to go to their office and demonstrate. No worries I have no affiliation to Pheonix. Just want to make sure pelicans do not have to suffer a soft brake,

Do you mean this one?