To check the head studs or not to check the head studs...

[canoehead]

Hi guys,

I am having a PPI done tomorrow on an '82 911 SC with 190K miles on it. It had a complete engine rebuild done in a reputable Porsche shop by the second owner back in 2000 (I would be buying from the third owner) at 130K miles.

Right now the PPI is costing me 350 at a Porsche dealership with the leak down...it would be about 680 to to have the head studs checked as well.

Would you and should I spend the extra $250 to check 'em out??

Thanks for your help!

[RoninLB]

a dealership would probably screw up the stud test as the guy probably knows nothing about your car

if me I'd try and locate a good 911 independent shop

[nineball]

if you are serious about the car and have the cash, ready to buy if it passes inspection, then do it. $250 vs the cost of the car is a pretty big gap, and a drop in the bucket for most of our cars as far as costs go

check out the dealership first and see if they have people experienced with older 911 models. some do, some don't, they all will take your money. i second the idea of an independent doing the ppi and you can find one pretty easily using the pca website or this board.

[canoehead]

The reason I chose this dealership to have the PPI done is because they employ a mechanic who gets rave reviews all over the West Coast for his service on air cooled Porsche motors. He had his own independent shop and at that time would not touch any model Porsche later than 1987, only earlier.

Anyway, he is doing the PPI so I feel I am in good hands...

[canoehead]

nineball, drop in the bucket?!

I hope not...

This guy has about 50K in receipts since it was bought and 25K just since '07. Im really hoping he took care of a lot of the issues that should have popped up.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Why not look at the work orders for the rebuild to see if they replaced the original Dilavars at that time (they should have!). If not, that should be a price bargaining point.

[mercury26]

You should definitely check on a SC. I assumed the mechanic doing my PPI did check, well he did not and I had a big expense on replacing them. I would have used it as a negotiating tool.

Thanks

Chuck

[Josh D]

Records could also show if there has been recent valve adjustment work. Broken HS would have shown up then.

[nineball]

Originally Posted by canoehead

nineball, drop in the bucket?!

I hope not...

This guy has about 50K in receipts since it was bought and 25K just since '07. Im really hoping he took care of a lot of the issues that should have popped up.

i guess you never heard that every 911 is a $20k+ car, doesn't matter if you spend it all on the purchase of the car or once you own it, it will cost you $20k+. when i bought my 83 a few years back it came with a glowing ppi review and i still dropped several thousand into things that it needed, much more for things i wanted

[Koizumi]

At 117k I had 1 broken stud when the covers were off. I replaced them all with Supertec head studs. And I then I replaced everything possible while the engine was pulled--everything. Lotta stuff went to the machine shop too. Many many thousands of dollars later, my car is in excellent health, not a single drop of oil. My point is, head studs break. You will have to do an engine rebuild. It is very expensive. There's no such thing as an inexpensive 911

[yelcab1]

[QUOTE=nineball;6434101], it will cost you $20k+ ...QUOTE]

There are exceptions if you buy well, and if you do work yourself.

I bought my 80SC for $8,500, spent $2,000 adding tensioner upgrades, reseal, cleaned things up, tune ups and so. Over the 5 years that I had it, I spent another $1000 for a valve job with steel studs replaced, and just about broke even with a tranny rebuild by buying a used tranny, scavenging, and reselling the rest.

So, my whole onwership was about $13,000 or thereabout. Great car, loved it, drove it, for not a lot of money. Sold it at a decent price to the next guy who exported it ...

If I had to take it to a shop for all those things, then the price would have been north of $20K.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

What would Mr. Canoehead do?

Yes, it should be checked on an SC. I probably wouldnt do it at a dealer. Find a good independent shop that actually knows air cooled Porsches.

If the price is a bit steep, you can always just jack up one side of the car at a time and pull the valve covers.

[Joe Bob]

$250 to 'check' .... run Forrest, run.

[JeremyD]

On an SC - absolutely - at a stealership - Nope, nota, no way...

It would not be unheard of for them to tell you they were OK - charge you for new gaskets and labor - and not actually have checked them...

[canoehead]

Oh man, you guys are really scaring me about the dealer(stealer)ship!!

Like I said, I picked it because David Loop works there who is apparently one of the better air cooled mechanics on the West Coast. There were no independent shops that had the experience I was looking for close enough to have the car brought there (Im buying it sight unseen from Chicago).

I took everyones advice and checked in spite of the relatively rebuild in 2000. They've already called me and told me that the studs were fine so they were going to move forward with the leak down. Its comforting that they called me to mention that, and it seems like the PPI is being done in its proper order so I hope they aren't lying

Im waiting for the rest of the results....very nervous for my first 911!!

[tazzieman]

Originally Posted by canoehead

Oh man, you guys are really scaring me about the dealer(stealer)ship!!

Like I said, I picked it because David Loop works there who is apparently one of the better air cooled mechanics on the West Coast. !!

Simple . Attend the inspection in person , tell him he is highly regarded and that you are fascinated by the inner workings of these cars.
He may not like it , but if he is 1/2 decent there should be no issue. Stay silent, just observe.
If this is against their OH&S & secrecy/privacy laws , go elsewhere. I would!

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by canoehead

Right now the PPI is costing me 350 at a Porsche dealership with the leak down...it would be about 680 to to have the head studs checked as well.

Would you and should I spend the extra $250 to check 'em out??

Not a math major, I take it?

680-350=330

$330 seems a bit steep to pull off the bottom 2 valve covers, take literally 60 seconds to check the studs, and put the valve covers back on.

I'd want them checked, but at a reasonable price. 1/2 hour labor plus new gasket kit.

[canoehead]

tazzieman--sight unseen from Chicago, otherwise I would most defineitely take your advice.

mclovin---oh man, THATS where all my money goes!

[dshepp806]

too damned expensive.....MO.

Some of the stud checks simply involve a visual that nothing falls into your hands when the VCs are removed...I've always wondered how people handle these PPis insofar as head studs......what the agreement is between the inspection shop and the seller..

If I were to sell my 89,..I'd be particulary keen on what the inspection mechanic would do when REMOVING MY VALVE COVERS AND DICKING AROUND IN THERE WITH A FRIKIN' TORQUE WRENCH ON MY HEAD STUDS,...are you kidding me? One could end up with something really bad AFTER the wrench proceeds to frick with the torque on the head studs bolts. I'd be VERY clear (because, in this scenario, it would ALREADY be MY CAR that's being dicked with.....your case may be different since it's not your car,..even, maybe the rules would change.

BUT: to deliver it to an unknown shop (reputation aside), I'd NOT let them touch my cars' head studs with an allen wrench to ANY degree,..if it doesn't fall out with the VCs,..it's a done deal at that point, that the head studs are NOT broken.....Bottom line: I'd not authorize anyone to touch those head studs at all.....hell,..I'd probably want to be there for their inspection to ensure they don't fuch it up......paranoid and anal....that's me....

However, as stated, it's wouldn't be an ALREADY owned car by you, so let the chips fall where they may,...go ahead and have him CHECK the head studs torques,...nothing lost on your count should something break. At least the break wouldn't be on your side.....sheeit,..have him retorque the damned things.....!

Always wondered how owners handle this "intrusive check" of their babies,.....by someone, possibly, not known.....(personally).

Careful,..is all I can say.

Best!

Doyle

[canoehead]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

REMOVING MY VALVE COVERS AND DICKING AROUND IN THERE WITH A FRIKIN' TORQUE WRENCH ON MY HEAD STUDS,...

I love this sentence out of context.