PVC Location and Surging/Idle Issue

[Kaliv]

I took my 1987 911 out for a spirited drive on Sunday...had a lot of fun and zero issues. Monday I start it up to go to work and had a puff of blue smoke come out. Normally I wouldn't think this would be a problem as depending on how the cylinders stop, some oil could possibly pool and burn off on start-up...or so I've been told. Anyway, I'm used to a little white smoke on startup, but not blue. The blueness goes away, but there is definately cloudy exhaust coming out of the pipe. Additionally, I can't get it to idle. It continually surges, meaning I can't get a steady idle out of it. I let it run for about two minutes of trying before turning it off. Surging on startup is normal for me...and it usually goes away after about applying 2500 rpm for about 5 seconds. At the moment...it's putting out a lot of carbon monoxide...as it set off the ones in my house near the garage entry door.

I talked with a few gearheads at work, and they mentioned it could possibly be 1 of two things. First, I could have a clogged PCV valve. Problem...I don't know where it's located or even how to clean it. Second, I could have gotten too much oil seepage in a cylinder that isn't allowing my spark plug to fire and so I'm actually only running on 5 instead of 6. These guys work on Mustangs and Datsuns, so I'm assuming the problem I'm having transcends makes, but still thier might be differences with an air cooled engine.

Any ideas of what I should look into first...and if it's the PCV, where is it? I'm thinking taking out spark plugs and wiping them off with a rag is too simple...is there something else I should do to clean that area out?

Finally...any idea what the root cause is? Think this is an old car fluke or is there a problem that's developing that I should look into before it becomes something expensively bad?

Thanks!

[j911brick]

I don't think your car has a pvc valve. Do a compression leak-down test.

[wildcat077]

First thing is that your car is running too rich to begin with ...
Try to lean out the mixture until you get no surging at startup.The access is awful to get the Allen key to adjust the mixture but the end result is well worth it !

Piece of advice ... tie a string to your Allen key and loop it around your wrist, they're pretty hard to fish out if you drop it on your intake shroud !

Cheers !
Phil

[86 911 Targa]

Originally Posted by Kaliv

I took my 1987 911 out for a spirited drive on Sunday...had a lot of fun and zero issues. Monday I start it up to go to work and had a puff of blue smoke come out. Normally I wouldn't think this would be a problem as depending on how the cylinders stop, some oil could possibly pool and burn off on start-up...or so I've been told. Anyway, I'm used to a little white smoke on startup, but not blue. The blueness goes away, but there is definately cloudy exhaust coming out of the pipe. Additionally, I can't get it to idle. It continually surges, meaning I can't get a steady idle out of it. I let it run for about two minutes of trying before turning it off. Surging on startup is normal for me...and it usually goes away after about applying 2500 rpm for about 5 seconds. At the moment...it's putting out a lot of carbon monoxide...as it set off the ones in my house near the garage entry door.

I talked with a few gearheads at work, and they mentioned it could possibly be 1 of two things. First, I could have a clogged PCV valve. Problem...I don't know where it's located or even how to clean it. Second, I could have gotten too much oil seepage in a cylinder that isn't allowing my spark plug to fire and so I'm actually only running on 5 instead of 6. These guys work on Mustangs and Datsuns, so I'm assuming the problem I'm having transcends makes, but still thier might be differences with an air cooled engine.

Any ideas of what I should look into first...and if it's the PCV, where is it? I'm thinking taking out spark plugs and wiping them off with a rag is too simple...is there something else I should do to clean that area out?

Finally...any idea what the root cause is? Think this is an old car fluke or is there a problem that's developing that I should look into before it becomes something expensively bad?

Thanks!

For our '86:

[Kaliv]

Had some time to take a look at the car today...here's what my PVC connection looks like. Some minor cracking, but overall looks sound.



So I thought I would take a look at my plugs to make sure they aren't fouled up. Wow, they are really hard to get at...and apparently I don't have a good tool to even think about getting them out. My big ratchet has an extender that is too long to get the angle to weave into the valve cover....and my smaller extender ratchet isn't long enough.

Any special techniques to make it easier? Or do we basically just grin bear it and press through the tight spaces?

[DRACO A5OG]

Where to begin?

Idle surge, check for a vacuum leak, while it surges tap on the idle control valve, if it clears up then remove and clean, check the ohms while you are at it. But most likely a vacuum leak.

Get a mirror and check behind the throttle body, near the cruise control and behind the AFM, for any loose or cracked vacuum hoses.

Blue Smoke, I really doubt it is your PCV. How much oil do you have in her at 194 degrees? If too much oil it will go thru your intake and spit out the exhaust until it reaches proper levels, It is also signs of a blown seal, but let's stay positive here

As far as plugs go, check your OEM tool bag, use the plug removal tool, it is the perfect size.

Jim

[Kaliv]

No tools came with the car...oh well.

Anyway, my tool kit has this neat little 5/8" spark plug socket...has a little rubber seal in it to pull the plugs out. Anyway, for the life of me it isn't working. I yanked the rubber seal out and just tried to get the 5/8" deep socket on the spark plug...it won't make a connection.

So...it's either I have the wrong diameter or the wall of the socket is too thick? Anyone care to clue me in? Is there something special about this spark plug tool that originally comes with the cars?

[Kaliv]

Originally Posted by 86 911 Targa

For our '86:

Looking at the plastic thing that the hose goes to, you have a cloth hose coming out the top. On my car, I don't have anything coming out of that thing...and there is no hole on top that anything could possibly plug into.

What is that, and why do I only have one hose going into it?

It also looks like there is another rubber hose coming in from the back. Again, I only have one hose, and that's the one the red arrow is pointing to. And there are no other holes in the plastic device. Also, my device is metal...brass looking.

[Kaliv]

Couldn't find anything wrong so I put her back together and tried starting her again today. It gave a bunch of smoke and a putter, but finally evened out and seemed to be idling good. I'm perplexed because I didn't do anything to it.

While it was idling, I thought I would check the oil as I know it's coming due for an oil change...and to my surprise...I found a bunch of sludge. I remember seeing this before...and sure enough, there was a thread on it.

This is disgusting - yes there are photos.....

I used Brad Penn last time...and I'm now living in a humid state (Alabama vise Las Vegas the past couple years). Do you think I should I change my brand of oil?

[Tippy]

First thing I'd check is the head temp sensor, the connector is located on the driver side, rearest most intake runner. It's the white connector.

If you have a multimeter, I'd check resistance. If you have infinity or 0 (not sure which one), the sensor has died. That might be your issue.

[vancouver86/911]

If I'm reading this correctly this is the first time you've changed the plugs on a 911. If that is the case tread carefully here. When you go to put them back in you will be doing it completely blind because they are located deep under the valve cover. If you cross thread any plugs it is going to be a very expensive fix. Hopefully you have someone close by that could walk you through a couple first. I have done a fair amount of repairs on my 911 and I have found changing the plugs with engine in the car to be a very underestimated endeavor that could cause alot of damage if not done correctly.