There is such a thing as too low...apparently

[sobamaflyer]

This is my first 911, I've had it for a while now but I had an epiphany today. My car came to me lowered, way lowered, I like the way it looks but I've come to realize why Porsche didn't intend for it to be that way.

First I chewed up a new set of rear tires (came with the car) in something less than 3k miles, so I replaced them and learned to align it in my garage. I've got it maxed out for camber but if the lack of wear on the new tires are any indicator I did an ok job.

The front tires lasted longer but it was [past] time to address that end. If Wayne's book is right, AFTER I raised the front end 1/2" this morning it's still 1.3" BELOW Euro height. There is still visible negative camber but nowhere near as much as it had before.

A country road test drive was eye opening, she isn't nearly as darty and the ride is a lot smoother. After this I decided I probably needed to raise it another 1/2"-3/4" and then raise the rear to match, then do alignment 2.0. At the moment the back is notably lower than the front which is unacceptable.

So there's my report, 2+ years in I'm figuring out this wonderful machine in my garage still has a long way to go, a lot more to show me and I can look forward to even more fun in it.

[J.J.]

this thread is uselsess without pics

[sobamaflyer]

I had pics but they didn't seem THAT much different, but I certainly don't mind showing her off

Shortly after putting her mostly together:

Today:


I'm about to replace those front tires (will try and take a pic to show of them tomorrow). They are currently 205/50/16's I plan on going to 205/55/16's to go w/ my new 225/50/16 rears.

[Grady Clay]

Try here:
Car lowered, too much or not??

Best,
Grady

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Try here:
Car lowered, too much or not??

Best,
Grady

Or here: Yet another ride height thread

[sobamaflyer]

Thanks Gents, I didn't imagine I was the first to come across this "new knowledge" was just new to me .... interesting reading though.

My front measures (now, after adjusting) 141mm following the factory procedure described in 101 projects. I'm going to reduce that another 15-20mm and then raise the back.

[will hung]

Congratulations on figuring out that we don't need to stance our 911's. The car looks fantastic. I like where you are going tire size-wise too. If I can make 1 recommendations, I would recommend balancing out your spoilers. So either add a front spoiler or remove your rear.

[sobamaflyer]

Thanks Will, I've wanted a front spoiler for a long time but haven't been able to pull the trigger with so many other things that needed addressing. The tail isn't going anywhere, it's iconic (IMHO) and I've been in love with them since I was 10 years old.

Best shot I have handy of the license plate:


She does get a little light in the front around 100mph

[wildcat077]

Every car is built different but a good height indication is slipping your hand over the tires up to the knuckles for the rear and one full hand over the tires for the front.

My car doesn't rub anywhere,although i did roll my front fenders with a baseball bat two years ago ...
Anything lower in the front if you drive your car hard or participate in some DE's will get you sliced tires and deformed front fender lips

There is also a difference in height with different brands of tires as i have less clearance when i install My Nitto NT01's for the track as compared to the same size Dunlop Star Specs for the street ...

Cheers !
Phil

[Grady Clay]

… and I've been in love with them since I was 10 years old.

When I was 10, the 911 was not even a glimmer in Ferry Porsche’s eye.
When Butzi was thinking about the replacement for the 356 in ‘59, I was (death defying) at 120+ in a new 410 Superamerica on western Philly (Main Line) roads.

My first 911 joined me in appreciation of fine cars.
I still have the ’68 coupe I special ordered from Porsche K.G. and it has seen service on almost every significant race track in North America.
Dr. F. Porsche as passenger.

We are all looking forward to your 911 having simular service.

Best,
Grady

[fbarrett]

Grady:

While you were swanning about in that Italian demon, I was riding in a red Speedster about 90 miles to the west, In York, Pennsylvania, where I was in high school. Sadly the Speedster wasn't mine--it belonged to my violin teacher.

Frank

[sobamaflyer]

My '75 and I are about the same age, but I fondly remembering having some early 80's turbo posters hung up on my bedroom wall.

I hope to have as broad an experience base eventually as you do Grady but sounds like I have a late start

Question:

Is there an acceptable level lower than Euro where I can still experience a ride/handling balance as is expected of my car? As personal preference I do like the look of a lowered car but I'm coming around.

[Grady Clay]

sobamaflyer,

No, the whole point of the ‘how low’ discussion is there is ‘too low’ for utility.
If we could get the C/G below ground level – we would. Not possible.
Look at F1 cars, they lighten everything possible and then ‘make weight’ with a tungsten plate under the car.
For our road 911s, that is not in the realm of possibility.

For our 911s, you can get lower with a lot of effort: stiff springs, raised spindles and some chassis modifications.
Remember, when the pan scrapes the ground, you are way too low.

You don’t have a ‘a late start’, just opportunity to do even more. The world is out there to play with.

Frank,
In HS from Hun School it was taxi to PJ&B in Princeton, PJ&B to Main Line PRR and on to near Coatseville, PA cousins. My roommate lived nearby. We took (his dad’s) Ferrari up to Pottstown and ‘bailed out’ my younger brother from the Hill School.
Many trips those years. Perhaps as far west as York. Good mountain roads learning to drive properly.
I recall having the 5-liter Ferrari ‘as fast as it would go’ jumping hills along those country roads. Blaupunkt tube radio blaring.
The good news: We lived to tell. It makes 215 mph in a 935K3 look easy.

Best,
Grady

[T77911S]

i had a heart stopping second to regret how low mine is when a car kicked up a "bolder" about the size of a grapefruit, maybe bigger. i saw it bounce up from under the car infront of me and all i could do is watch it bounce as it got closer to my car and think about the $$$ of damage it was going to do. some how it hit so that it went under my front spoiler, only to put a dent in my gas tank, the back of the floor pan and my heater box before exiting.

afew months later i did hit something at night that did put a nice dent in my spoiler.

[sobamaflyer]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

sobamaflyer,No, the whole point of the ‘how low’ discussion is there is ‘too low’ for utility
Best,
Grady

I guess what I should have asked was: has the point of diminishing returns (for height reduction) on an otherwise stock chassis/suspended 911 been established? Or is Euro height the benchmark and choosing to go lower than that is merely an appearance preference issue with handling degrading the farther away you get?

Grady your tales and detailed advice are endlessly entertaining BTW, thank you!

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by sobamaflyer

I guess what I should have asked was: has the point of diminishing returns (for height reduction) on an otherwise stock chassis/suspended 911 been established? Or is Euro height the benchmark and choosing to go lower than that is merely an appearance preference issue with handling degrading the farther away you get?....

I‘m not sure I have an answer to this.
“How low can you go?”

If younger, I would experiment with my ‘already too low’ ‘79SC.
While having stiff torsion bars, it is low enough to hit the shock stops on medium bumps. Unacceptable and should be corrected.
It should have spindles raised, shocks shortened, perhaps even stiffer torsion bars and the engine & trans raised in the chassis.

Extreme for a street 911 would be reposition the suspension upward.

sobamaflyer, Thank you for the complement. Too bad many others with ‘experience’ don’t post their life experiences.
We all probably wouldn’t be Porsche owners without ‘experience’ of some sort.

Best,
Grady

PS: That first Ferrari adventure was simultaneous with a weekend trip to Bridgehampton, LI and crewing for ‘The Captain’ when he was an undergraduate (with a ’59 RSK). More adventures.