Need some help while out in the garage

[marcesq]

Richard and I are doing some of the "while you are in there" stuff, and I have 2 questions.

1. Should we use any gasket cement or permatex on the cam chain covers, or just use the gasket without more.

2. What is the best method for removing the main shaft seal on the G50 (behind the guide tube).

As always thanks for the help.

With any luck the engine will be in by Saturday evening.

[Doug E]

Sorry I am missing the fun guys. Shoot me an e-mail tomorrow and let me know how things are going.

BTW, I am available Friday night if you need any help wrapping things up for Saturday.

[Jim Smolka]

marcesq,

IMHO, a little bit of Loctite 518 red gasket sealer is good to use on the chain covers. Also, if you have the chain/cam housing boxes off, be sure to use some silcon paste (NOT RTV) on the O-ring.

[Rick Lee]

I don't even want to think about taking those housings off. I'll be happy to get the right cover off at this point. Looks like that's gonna require removing all the a/c compressor mounting hardware.

That main shaft seal wasn't leaking before, but it sure is shot now after I tried to remove it. I've got a nice new one to replace it and have no idea how that old one comes out with making some Dr. Frankenstein-like tool - like bending long ice picks, hooking them together with a cross member and using a jack to unseat that seal. It is really in there and there's not a lot of room for leverage. Please help.

[marcesq]

Jim:

Thanks. Boxes are not off (not that ambitious).

Anybody have any suggestions on the main shaft seal other than a jack hammer

[HawgRyder]

You can drill 2 small holes 180 Deg apart in the metal case of the seal itself...then screw in the correct size sheet metal screws and use them to pull the seal.
Bob

[Jim Sims]

Make a slide hammer tool. Adapt a slide hammer so that a small pair of vice grips can be attached to the working end. One way is to fabricate a hook on the end of the slide hammer that engages an eye welded to the adjustment screw of the vice grips. Carefully drill two small holes on opposite sides through the metal section of the seal to be removed. Put a piece of tape on the drill bit to ensure you don't drill too deeply. Screw sheet metal screws into the holes; again only deep enough to well anchor the screws. Attach the vice grips to one of the screw heads. Hook on the slide hammer and slam outward. Move to the other screw and repeat. Work back and forth until the seal comes out. Clean any debris from drilling and install new seal. I highly recommend using the correct seal installer tool. This removal technique works for both the main seal and the pulley end seal. The is no digging or gouging of the case or shaft with this method. I learned this method from my mentor. Cheers, Jim

[JDaniel]

Try e-mailing Rick at Eurotech. He had to do this on my car and might have some tips for you.
- eurotech@together.net

[KTL]

Bob Hutson has a great idea there. I tried to get mine out by squishing it (like you do with the flywheel side crank seal). Little did I know that there is not a "bottom" to the opening in the trans. casing. Pushed that stupid seal right inside the trans.! What a sinking feeling that was!!! So, if you plan to go with Bob's idea, make sure to hold the seal with something while you drill into it. YOU DON'T WANT TO PUSH IT INTO THE TRANS.

After trying different tools to no avail, I bought some 1/16" steel rod at the hardware store and bent the rod in into the shape shown below



Made two of them and had to pull like a mutha to get that stupid seal out. I'm sure it'll come out real easy since you wont have to pull the seal past the O.D. of the opening on the inside of the trans.!!!

Make sure to note the depth at which the seal is currently installed. I did not remember and therefore wasn't sure how deep to set the seal. Since I was taking the trans. to have it cut for the updated shaft assembly, I had the Porsche shop push the seal in for me. If I didn't take the trans. to the shop, I would have put in it flush with the edge of the opening. I'm sure that would have been fine too. I was just a little fed up with myself and didn't want to screw with that seal again. Call me a sissy I guess.

Funny thing too................. When I handed over the trans. to the tech., he looked right away to see if the old seal was still floating on the mainshaft inside the trans.! I thought to myself, "Whew, saved a little face there!!!"



John Walker recommends using some gasket sealant stuff. Says he likes the coppercoat stuff on the gray gaskets:

JW's comments

Permatex makes three "spray" types:

Hi Temp Copper

All Purpose

Hylomar

This stuff works pretty good for getting the gaskets off:

Gasket Remover

[marcesq]

OK . . OK . . It is clear to me that there is a huge amount of mechanical accumen on this board, and every bit of it is greatly appreciated.

In the past I have used various and less subtle methods on non-Porsche trannys that I owned. This G50 does not belong to me so I wanted the help of experts, which thanks to all, I now have.

Hope I can return the favor

[Superman]

I'd be a little surprised if JW recommended goop on the chain cover gaskets. In fact, I think I recall him suggesting otherwise. I suggest otherwise. This is a gasket you will likely want to remove again some time, and at that time you will be unhappy with yourself if goop is there. JW put my chain covers on a big belt sander to ensure they are flat. Mating surfaces should be clean and not scarred. If they are in bad shape then fine, use goop. But if they are reasonably clean and unscarred, I say put then on dry.

I have never met a shaft seal I could not remove using either a seal puller (resembles a small miner's pic, about 14" long), or a pic tool (screwdriver handle with a sharp pic at the end). Shaft seals are soft on the inside and hard on the outside diameter, with a metal spring in between, on the back side. The tool goes in between the shaft and the seal, hooks around to grab the spring and the hard part of the seal, without scratching either metal surface it rides against. But then, I have never dealt with a G50, which may be more challenging. Good luck.

[Jim Sims]

The technique I outlined is for the removal of engine crankshaft seals. Isn't the the G-50 main shaft seal within the clutch release bearing guide tube? Can one not dismount the tube, take it to a press; press out the old seal and press in the new one? This was the case with the later 915's Cheers, Jim

[Rick Lee]

Seal is well behind the guide tube. It's hard enough with the guide tube removed. I can't imagine doing this with the guide tube on. Anyway, I have to switch the guide tube out anyway, as there is an updated one for the G50's. I think the two screw method might be our next route. Thanks for the help.

[KTL]

Jim Sims,

G50 shaft seal is pressed into trans. case, not into guide tube. Wish it was like the 915, as it would've been cake to replace. Your info. on the crank seals was worth the read, regardless of the fact that it didn't apply to the topic at hand! Nice description!

Super Jim,

I wouldn't have posted JW's recommendation if it wasn't true. That would be a bad thing to do. Here it is again:

John Walker's Previous Comments on Chain Cover Gaskets

I too like those miner's pick seal pullers. Puller wouldn't fit into the bellhousing due to it's length and the curvature on the point was too much as well (handle would contact trans. case before you could insert point into seal lip). My hook tool broke (old and cheap), so that's why I had to make the rod tools. They worked without any resulting damage, so I was pretty pleased with myself considering that I usually overlook the simple way around a problem!

[Superman]

Perhaps JW does recommend goop on the chain cover gaskets. I don't recall whether they were green paper or grey graphite. I think they may be gray graphite, the kind he does not put goop on. The reason I think this is that I believe I did not replace them when I had to go back in there to change the cam thrust plate gasket (which is green, does not get replaced often and I did use CopperCoat). My chain housing covers do not have goop on them, and they do not leak. The gaskets between the chain covers and the engine case, rectangular things, are green and they are coated with goop.

I won't mind if I am wrong about JW's treatment of chain cover gaskets, but I still think he may agree that goop should not be on these. Once you put goop on these engine parts, it makes them very hard to deal with in the future. Been there, done that.