Think I can get my 2.0 up to 200hp?

[procan]

Giovanni86, I do have a friend looking to get rid of his 2.4, which I could bump up to a 2.7.. This is also an option, but again, there is no substitute for displacement...

[giovanni86]

I would not use a 3,2 because when you look at your engine you will like to see old stuff:

compare this:



to this

[SpeedracerIndy]

Originally Posted by procan

I guess I have to decide exactly what I want. I like the idea of more period correct, but I ultimately want something fast with lots of low end, although that can get me in trouble very quickly...

A 930/10 3.0 (81-83 euro motor) would fit the bill perfectly. 204hp with stock exhaust. Put on SSI's and you're around 220hp. Minimal electronics to deal with (no O2 sensor or ECU) so it woudl be an easy swap. The 901 could be an issue though. The SC motors tend to have more low end grunt, while the 3.2 motors don't come alive until 4000+ rpm. Although either motor would be a huge boost in an early chasis so I doubt you'd notice a difference.

[Lukesportsman]

I have to say if you want "old feel" I'd strongly consider a 2.7. It'll look the part, rev well and easily get 200hp with cook book formulas from several good builders.

If you want to make easy 200hp for possibly less money, then why not pick up a 3.0 at a cheaper entry point especially with Euro P&C's or some JE's in there to get it nearer 10:1 under PMO's. It won't be "accurate" but will mostly look and sound the part with 50% more cc's than that 2.0 for better street manners and durability. Selling a good 2.0 will get you a ways into a 3.0. 3.2 EFI will be quicker likely in street trim, but won't sound or rev the same. Certainly as mentioned above, doesn't look as good.

Not sayin a 3.2 isn't great, but if your weighing options of retro vs displacement why not shoot in middle and get a little of both?

[procan]

No matter the engine size I am still planning on PMO carbs, so I will get the retro look either way. What do you think I could get for my 2.0 911E w/ zeniths and Carrera chain tensioners?

[Lukesportsman]

Need more info on the 2.0. If an original E, it could help re establish some value to an otherwise restored 911E with say a T or L engine. To that individual it could have real value......considering you can get a 3.0 for $4k, might get in the even territory I would think if in 'like' condition and complete with reasonably sound numbers.

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by giovanni86

I would not use a 3,2 because when you look at your engine you will like to see old stuff:

compare this:



to this

Yep, this is what you'd be seeing of my 3.2 as I fly by!

I'm just having fun. I love the smaller displacement motors with carbs & MFI. But after 14 years of that, I'm ready for a change. There's no wrong answer here. Do what makes you happy!

Roger

[procan]

Need more info on the 2.0. If an original E, it could help re establish some value to an otherwise restored 911E with say a T or L engine.

It is an original '69 E motor, although the MFI has been replaced with Zenith 40 Tins and upgraded Carerra chain tensioners, though with those upgrades it makes me wonder what else may have been upgraded on the inside...

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by procan

It is an original '69 E motor, although the MFI has been replaced with Zenith 40 Tins and upgraded Carerra chain tensioners, though with those upgrades it makes me wonder what else may have been upgraded on the inside...

Here is a point of reference for you. I listed my 2.4T motor on Pelican a couple weeks ago. It has E cams, Webers, Carrera tensioners, etc. I priced it "aggressively" at $2800. It was like throwing chum into a shark tank!

Roger

[procan]

A fellow local PCA member is giving me a deal on a 2.4 that I can't pass up. I'm going with the 2.4 with the possibility of bumping it up to a 2.7 complete with PMO carbs and headers. The 2.4/2.7 is more of a period engine, and I think the low end of the 3.2 is enough to get me in trouble.

[tadd]

And you don't have to break the bank. It's just about the right parts. This uses stock port, small valve heads (no need for the spendy 69S).

2.0 engine, excellent performance

Question is would you rather be having a screaming ball at 55 or 105. One of the things I really liked about my RZ350. It was a blast at 65. Much easier on the license!

t

[Paul W]

3.2's can look retro...



In my '69 you can't tell it's not a 2ltr, until you start it

[procan]

So I pulled the trigger on a 2.4T. The deal was too good to pass up. The plan is a variation of the 2.4 with 2.2S pistons.

The top end came mostly disassembled, and without fuel injection. It was an MFI motor, so I bought some cheap Zeniths, a couple carb rebuild kits, and some 2.2T heads so I don't have to deal with plugging the hole in the 2.4 MFI heads. For my Zeniths I am looking at buying main jets from this guy once I get my hands on some 34mm venturies and calculate the size of main jets I need (160ish?). Oh, and I bought solex cams.

I am planning on buying some custom JE pistons. I am now debating whether to order 9.5:1 pistons and stick with single plug, or jump the compression to 9.8:1 or ~10.2:1 and twin plug. I need to send my heads off to get built anyways, why not get them ported, then drilled and tapped for twin sparks at the same time? I have an MSD unit, and heard you can run twin plugs off of one MSD.

What do you guys think?




Old bits



New bits



tl;dr
Have:
- 2.4T core
- Zeniths
- Solex cams

Need:
- high compression pistons
- 34mm venturis
- Larger main jets (160ish?)

Question:
- Twin plug while i'm in there?

[Roger 911]

"and some 2.2T heads so I don't have to deal with plugging the hole in the 2.4 MFI heads"

They sell little plugs that are made for this. I used them when I switched to Webers on my 2.4T MFI. I don't recall if 2.2s and 2.4s used the same valve and port sizes. If the 2.2s are smaller, then I would definitely get a set of the plugs and use the 2.4s. Otherwise, it probably comes down to condition of the heads.

Enjoy!

Roger

[procan]

2.4T ports I remember being smaller than 2.2T ports for some reason , 2.2T and E ports are same size. I'm pretty sure port sizes are the only thing that changed with 2.2-2.7, but I'll have to check my engine rebuilding book when I get home. My 2.4 heads are newly re-built, but I think I want to port the heads to S size, (and contemplating twin plug), so I bought core 2.2 heads instead of messing about with the newly rebuilt 2.4 heads. If anyone wants brand new rebuild 2.4T heads, I'll sell them to you.

With 85mm pistons and increased compression to 9.5:1, or 10ish:1, I would like to be on the safe side and not have to worry all the time about fuel quality. Hence twin plug. (Plus it looks cool!)

My dream is 85mm JE pistons, 10ish:1 compression, twin plug, solex cams, S spec heads, and 34mm venturies with my zeniths. I may have to settle with 9.5:1 compression and single plug, but I really want to twin plug. My piston choice depends on whether I twin plug or not.

Anyone have experience twin plugging with 1 MSD?

[Roger 911]

I think you're right on the ports. If memory serves me correct, when I measured the ports on my engine, they were only 29mm. This was actually smaller than the figures given in some reference material.

I had similar aspirations for my 2.4 motor, S cams, S ports, JE 85mm 9.5 (I was planning to simply bore the iron cylinders). I think that should comfortably give you the 200 hp you were looking for.

I assume you are rebuilding this yourself? Either way, get ready for a whole lot of "while your in there" expenditures!

Roger

[Matt Monson]

Nice to see this thread come back.

Twin plugging is neat, but add several thousand to the price of the build. Is it worth it to you for 20-25 more HP?

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Nice to see this thread come back.

Twin plugging is neat, but add several thousand to the price of the build. Is it worth it to you for 20-25 more HP?

Does it really provide that much additional power? If you had two identical 2.4s, one with 9.5:1 single plug and the other with 10.5:1 twin plug, would it be 20-25? How high of a CR can you run? I guess you wind up with fuel problems if you go too high (or carrying a case of octane booster in the trunk). Does twin plugging improve response at lower RPMS as well?

Roger

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by 304065

Sure, about $40,000 will do it. $10k will get you a stock rebuild if everything is in pretty good shape.

2,0 heads don't flow well and detonate, biggest budget item is in the heads.
Then case modifications
Then at least 10,3 to 1 pistons. With 72cc head volume there will be a very big dome on the pistons, hence the need for twin plugs.
Induction-- PMO at minimum but you may want to consider EFI-- $3500 to $6500
Crank mods and rods necessary to spin to 7500 RPM
Big cams, like 906
That's about the size of it.

Or you could buy a used 3,2. . .

This...

The problem with Porsche ownership.

$40k for 200hp...baawwahahahahaaaaaa

3.2

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

This...

The problem with Porsche ownership.

$40k for 200hp...baawwahahahahaaaaaa

3.2

Uh oh, you're stirring the hornets nest again!

(my net cost for 215 hp will be around $3K...3.2 )