Just drove a 911SC for the first time - questions & observations

[Tom F2]

Originally Posted by kjchristopher

One other note on A/C: I didn't catch where you are located, but I have found that A/C is less necessary in my 911SC than it is in other cars I've owned. Not having a huge chunk of hot iron in front of the car or hot radiators seems to make a difference in the air that flows in and around you.

I live in Los Angeles, near the beach, so the climate is mild. I do work downtown though and have done many trips to the valley (hot). With my cloth Recaros, the only time I wished I had A/C was when I drove to Riverside in July (no matter how you dice it, 105* heat is hot) or once when I went to the valley in my suit/tie. Otherwise it usually been a non-factor.

Good point about cloth seats. I have factory cloth seats (pinstripe velour!) in my Targa. Very few US market cars came with cloth seats.

[wachuko]

You really don't buy them for the A/C... none of these work really well until the A/C units of the 964 and 993... at least in mho of course...

[weseeeee]

You can't go wrong with a well sorted SC. Take your time and learn as much as you can before you buy. As others have stated, by now, many surviving SC's have had their problems addressed. You just need to know what to look for, tensioners, updated A/C, etc. Good luck. Al

[fitchesbass]

Good thread topic for a recent experience I had.

I drove my cousins late 70s SC up to this house for the holidays (it was down in my area getting some work done). It was the first time I drove it, and really the first time I drove an SC.

Compared to my 84 3.2 Carrera Coupe I was really surprised at the difference in throttle response and acceleration. My 3.2 feels noticeably quicker.

I don't know if there is a difference that I'm not accounting for... my 3.2 has an Auto Authority chip etc, but I was surprised at the difference.

The SC drove great - though it seemed like you really had to let it build speed and be efficient with braking and not scrub too much speed. Granted I wasn't pushing the car and I was driving it on public roads... but like I said, I didn't expect that noticeable of a comparison between the two in responsiveness.

Handling wise and everything else though the SC was the same old good feeling.



BTW his car is in much better original condition compared to mine - here are the cars together at Thanksgiving.

[r-mm]

Thanks everyone - great responses.

I live in New England and do drive year round but do not commute by car and often go 7 days without driving. If its truly nasty I can just not drive or we can take the S2000 (on Blizzaks). I plan on using the 911 how I use my current daily - which means I do need the A/C from time to time. When you need it you need it and I'd hate to not take the 911 to a summer party because we'd be sweaty when we got there. I just found a great A/C FAQ on Pelican Parts and agree with their basic principal that there is no reason, besides the long refrigerant lines, that a 911 can't have the same a/c as any other car of the era.

I'm sold on the idea that the shifter isn't a honda's and do like the idea of adapting my driving to the car and learning its quirks... but for me the 911 is such a great car because of its usability. Space for luggage, airy greenhouse, sensible ride height, reliable electronics and motor - and I see acceptable HVAC as an extension of that. I just need to factor it into the purchase price. Tacking $2k onto a clean SC's price does often bring it up to 964 territory, but that's not an apples to apples comparison because I do think the SC will cost less to run.

I understand the need for a PPI - I passed on a beautiful C4 because the leakdown came in in the 20's-30's and the owner didn't take my offer which allowed for a top end reseal.

One SC I'm looking at had a full motor + partial trans rebuild from a good shop along with having many other wear parts replaced. The only thing that gives me pause is that it had a respray for which the owner has a $1400 receipt for. I suppose its possible that this was an acceptable driver quality job, but its probably pushing it, especially for metallic paint. The car is for sale in a part of the country where labor is cheaper than New England, but it does sound like a low figure.

[Dublinoh]

I have owned a 1984 and 1987 Carrera. The 84 was new...it never shifted nearly as well as the G50 trans, not even close. So the 87-89 Carreras were my focus when I started looking two years ago. Worn suspension parts and tires can hugely affect handling and driving feel. Good luck with your search.

[r-mm]

For me, those 70's colors like your cousin's car are one of the main attractions of the SC (and to a lesser extent, the 3.2). It is quite hard to find a 964 in anything but black, white or red.

Originally Posted by fitchesbass

Good thread topic for a recent experience I had.

I drove my cousins late 70s SC up to this house for the holidays (it was down in my area getting some work done). It was the first time I drove it, and really the first time I drove an SC.

Compared to my 84 3.2 Carrera Coupe I was really surprised at the difference in throttle response and acceleration. My 3.2 feels noticeably quicker.

I don't know if there is a difference that I'm not accounting for... my 3.2 has an Auto Authority chip etc, but I was surprised at the difference.

The SC drove great - though it seemed like you really had to let it build speed and be efficient with braking and not scrub too much speed. Granted I wasn't pushing the car and I was driving it on public roads... but like I said, I didn't expect that noticeable of a comparison between the two in responsiveness.

Handling wise and everything else though the SC was the same old good feeling.



BTW his car is in much better original condition compared to mine - here are the cars together at Thanksgiving.

[86911tlcab]

how about finding an SC with a 3.2 in it...I have one, also has the sienne shifter installed...get the light and nimble sc with a more powerful engine...

[brads911sc]

Yes. Love my SC with the 3.2SS.

Originally Posted by 86911tlcab

how about finding an SC with a 3.2 in it...I have one, also has the sienne shifter installed...get the light and nimble sc with a more powerful engine...

[450knotOffice]

I own an '84 Carrera (for almost nine years now) that's been lightened down to 2500 pounds (and it's a Cab - GASP!). Over the years I had the suspension rebuilt and lightly modded a bit - with stiffer components all around - and I have a somewhat track oriented alignment. My car feels VERY light and nimble.

I agree that many (most) of the stock Carreras I've driven feel a bit heavier, less nimble, and a bit more insulated from the driving experience. My guess on that is the suspension setup (for the heavier, more numb steering feel) and the sound insulation in the car. My car has most of the insulation removed, but the other Carreras I've driven have ALL of theirs still in place and it amazes me how much that stuff insulates the sound of the car from the driver.

Drive a few Carreras - don't be afraid of those that are lightly modded with suspension and weight removal - and you may be surprised to find a real, old school gem.

[Josh D]

I put $2K into the A/C on my SC and it gets me through AZ summers with no oil temp issues with the 28 row brass oil cooler.

[r-mm]

Anyone here on Long Island or have a PPI shop they can recommend?

[DaddyGlenn]

I love my '78 SC (RoW). And once I get it back together, it will be a daily driver again. But not during the winter/salted road months.

On the SC's there are no fender liners so road dirt and moisture will build up behind the rear fenders where the rocker panels terminate. (kidney bowl area) and on the top of the front bumper shock mounts. And since I'm spending way too much time fixing rust in those spots (and the associated while-I'm-in-there projects) I will not allow road salt to be applied to my handy-work.

Plan on an A/C upgrade. Budget can vary based on how much of the original system you want to keep, if any. I went with a Griffiths set up and am happy with the results. Griffiths

I drove a friend's 3.2/915 and found it to be very similar to my 3.0/915.

As others have suggested, get a good PPI, buy the best you can afford and plan for repair/replacement of many 30+ year old parts.

[vracer]

One thing rarely mentioned is the superior A/C vent system of the 87/89 cars. My stock, but 'tuned' A/C is good to 90* & OK to100*, but I think that is pretty rare. Even though one person got the A/C to work for $2K, do some further checking, that sounds low.

Despite having a G50 car, I think the 964 is superior in many aspects and it looks 'vintage' to most non P-car enthusiasts. BTW, Porsche didn't keep torsion bars for 40 years because they are superior, but because they couldn't afford to update the suspension until the 964. (I'm rushing for my flame suit.) Check the Renn 964 board.

[r-mm]

I have no purist or other problems with the 964. I love everything about it except the high price of entry and higher price of upkeep.

Point taken on the G50 improved A/C - worth considering. I'm actually driving an 88 tonight and will report back (but not on the A/C, as its 30 degrees here).

[nicfranc]

If you get a Targa you have the option to take the top off.
That's cool.

Another note about Long Island cars.
South Shore cars may have water damage from the storm.

Check out the North Shore.
You might be able to find a car that has always been garaged and not driven in the winter.

I found one that was not driven in the winter and was garaged but my 1980 SC Targa has 200,000 + miles.
The owner took great care of it and updated the AC.
Since I just bought the car I have not used the AC and the car is garaged till Spring.

[Rot 911]

Only change on the AC from the SC and 84-85 Carreras to the 1986-1989 Carreras is placement of the vents. As for the SC-Carrera argument, that has been going on for years. To me they are both great cars. Hell, even the middies are fine cars. I would worry less about getting an SC or a Carrera and concentrate more on getting the best car you can find for the money you are going to spend.

I lightened my '86 up considerably including ditching the entire AC system. I like the access I'm afforded in the engine compartment. Along with the backdating, all you see back there now is intake and engine.

As for AC in the summer? I went out and bought a Boxster.

[ivangene]

these are interesting threads - what I get out of it is:

Each person here really likes their car

buying the right car is better than buying a specific year car - a good car in any year is a good car, and a turd...is a turd

and lastly - It's not a life long decision...if you change your mind or your taste changes in a year or 2,3, or 20 - change years or modify your car to fit your new/changing needs

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by vracer

...I think the 964 is superior in many aspects and it looks 'vintage' to most non P-car enthusiasts.

964 = no classic Fuchs, therefore not superior.

A bit tongue in cheek there, but to me the Fuchs look is part of classic 911 ownership. I didn't even look at 964s for this and other reasons.

[r-mm]

Originally Posted by Arne2

964 = no classic Fuchs, therefore not superior. I bit tongue in cheek there, but to me the Fuchs look is part of classic 911 ownership. I didn't even look at 964s for this and other reasons.

I can sign off on this sentiment. I do love fuchs and also love that wheel selection requires no brainpower. Only deciding if you polish the petals or not.

While 964 bumpers are a brilliant evolution of the impact bumpers they are not for someone who parks in the real world like me.