Input on project car value?

[fljmarz]

I’ve been considering a project car, to work on with my 15 year old son. The plan is that when it was done, it would be his first car. In the past couple of months I’ve come across 2 different 1983 Targas that need just about everything. One hasn’t been started in 20 years & the other in 15...Obviously both of these cars need major work/money to get running again and even more money to get road worthy & safe. I understand that this type of project isn’t something that a lot of you would recommend, but again, it’ll be father/son time to me. I was always the kind of guy that enjoyed working on the car as opposed to just driving, in other words, I enjoy the journey more than the destination.

A quick description of the cars:

Both cars haven’t been started in years, so they would need everything associated with getting them going (fuel system/breaks/etc); they have some rust in the typical spots; the Targa tops are intact, but need to be recovered; the interiors are shot. The paint isn’t great on either one, but my goal is to get it running & useable, so that doesn’t concern me at the moment. I’m sure I’m leaving a bunch of things out, but this is a start…so what do you think?

I was hoping to get some input on what you guys felt one of these cars were worth.
Thanks in advance.

Frank

[Josh D]

Here's a good thread about bringing a 911 back to life that would be worth your while to read. 1976 911S – from garage find to on the road

The good news is that these cars are fairly DIY friendly and don't require a lot of special tools, and there is a wealth of knowledge on here to help you.

Bad news is that it can get expensive real quick, depending on how neglected the car is and what parts would be replaced, rather than refurbished.

To put a value on a car I haven't myself inspected would be difficult.

[timmy2]

As cheap as you can get them. As the saying goes, they are all $20,000.00 cars, you decide if it's up front, or over a period of time.
( Actually I'm beginning to think that number is too low...)

[911dean]

Originally Posted by timmy2

As cheap as you can get them. As the saying goes, they are all $20,000.00 cars, you decide if it's up front, or over a period of time.
( Actually I'm beginning to think that number is too low...)

You are 100% correct... that number is too low.

[Bristol]

So... both cars are pretty similar in needs concerning paint, interior, rust repair, etc. That makes it more of a tough call. I think then it really comes down to the engines. Porsches are DIY friendly and they will be expensive to fix, but engine problems/rebuilds take it to a whole different level and they can unquestionably be one of the most expensive parts of a rebuild. So, I would look at the engines pretty carefully and let that help determine which car to pick. I'd start with trying to turn the crank. A little Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders wouldn't hurt. If one engine turns well and seems to have good compression while the other is seized, that really may help your decision. Can you drain the oil, pull the lower valve covers, and check for broken head studs? You could also ask very carefully about why the cars were parked. They were both parked for some reason, if it was engine related you may want to steer clear of that one. But I wouldn't put much weight in the owner's answer.

Just some thoughts....

Kirk

[Josh D]

$20K is probably a good number if only looking for reliable and safe. If you want it to look good too, well that's additional $$$

[javadog]

Those cars sound way too rough to even consider. FInd something that hasn't been totally ruined. You'll still have enough work to do on a better car to make it a learning experience. My experience with my kids has taught me that a little work is okay, especially when broken up into small chunks. They don't have the motivation to work on something for months on end, or years, before getting a payback.

Any time you can see rust on a 911, you'll find that there is unseen rust of considerably larger proportions. You don't want to tackle that. Find something that is relatively free of rust.

JR

[fljmarz]

Thanks for all the quick replies! I really appreciate all the input I can get.
If I decide that either of these cars is worth bringing back to life, what would be a reasonable offer to start at? Unfortunately, I have no idea what would be a fair price for a non-running car that needs lots of additional work besides getting the motor running…any idea of a price range would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again guys.
Frank

[OsoMoore]

If I recall correctly, you can get a rough "needs love" but basically functions 911 SC for around 10K. 15K can get you a driver, and 20K should get you something well sorted out. Of course, these numbers are based on a fair bit of searching and hunting under rocks.

Given that 10K can get you something serviceable, and rebuilds and rust repair are very expensive, you'd need to get a very very good price on something that needs both.

[timmy2]

Evaluate what they would bring you as disassembled parts cars for a starting point. Say $5,000.00 or so. My non running zero rust '78 was $6,600 with broken head stud and other engine trouble included!

[javadog]

Frank,

I'd suggest that if you got one of the cars for free, and your end goal was a decent driver (not a show car) you'd always have more money in it than it is worth. You just can't make financial sense out of a car once it reaches a certain point in it's condition and most sellers will only factor a portion of the car's needs into the asking price. I seldom see an SC for under $5k, as it's worth more as parts at that point than as a running car.

Try to find a car that needs a bunch of little weekend projects, not a restoration. They are out there...

JR

[Dave Colangelo]

I got a running 78 Targa with a newly rebuilt motor and trans for 9K. The car needs paint but other than that its all there. I agree that 4K-5K is a good starting point if every thing is there. Subtract form that for other issues. If the rust is terrible (these cars are galvanized so its a hit or miss thing) then you may want to walk away. Here is a break down of your over all costs (these prices are ball parks and change depending on what you can do)

- Paint, 3500
- Motor rebuild, 7000
- trans rebuild, 3000
- Interior, 2000 (depending on what needs to be done)
- Suspension, other things, 3000 at least

Tires for these big fuchs are not cheap either. But dont let all this scare you off. Many of these prices will be off set if you do the work your self or if some of the parts are salvageable. The nice thing about the 911, as stated above, they are easy to work on and this forum will provide an invaluable amount of information for you. I have met many great people fixing and driving Porsche's and had many great life experiences. I say do it.

Regards
Dave

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Dave Colangelo

- Paint, 3500
- Motor rebuild, 7000
- trans rebuild, 3000
- Interior, 2000 (depending on what needs to be done)
- Suspension, other things, 3000 at least

Those prices are low, unless they only include parts and sublet work.

JR

[Scott Douglas]

I always read these 'I want to start a father/son project' threads with interest.
It brings back the time when my own son and I started out working on cars together.
Have you actually talked with your son about this?
What does he want/expect/desire out of this, besides a running car?
Is he a true motorhead?
Will he be expected to contribute more than just labor to the project?
I've always found that kids that have more than just sweat equity invested, ie dollars also earned with their own sweat, treat the car with more respect once done.
I wish you the best of luck with your project.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by fljmarz

Thanks for all the quick replies! I really appreciate all the input I can get.
If I decide that either of these cars is worth bringing back to life, what would be a reasonable offer to start at? Unfortunately, I have no idea what would be a fair price for a non-running car that needs lots of additional work besides getting the motor running…any idea of a price range would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again guys.
Frank

I always remember back to when long hood cars were just old cars and we always used to say that an old 911 is only worth what the motor is worth. Longhoods have become collectable, but I think this still applies to less desirable years.

[47silver]

History: In 2003? i Bought a 1975 911S Targa. It had some issues mostly rust and interior. My oldest and I worked on it and he was to drive it, but luckily he ended up driving a more modern car.
Luckily i say as in retrospect i was stupid for not considering the safety aspects of the car. The older cars are wonderful but without air bags they are more dangerous to drive for both the driver and passenger. I think i would have never forgiven myself if something would have happened when he drove the car.
So do yourself a favor, get a more modern car with air bags as a minimum for your son to drive and get the Porsche for you.
Second: make sure it does not have any rust. That means 0 rust. There is nothing worse then getting a vehicle painted and 2 years later seeing bubbles here and there.

[ivangene]

Originally Posted by 47silver

The older cars are wonderful but without air bags they are more dangerous to CRASH for both the driver and passenger. .

sorry - I had to fix this...they are not more dangerous to drive....

but I agree, get a more modern car for a kid - old cars for the old men

[fljmarz]

Wow, you guys are a wealth of "Porsche" knowledge…I appreciate all the information based on your experiences, it’s great.
So now I guess I need to think this thru & decide where I want my starting point to be…a complete restore, or a car that’s in better shape & may be more a more solid platform.
I’ll keep you posted (on this thread) as to how I decide to proceed.
Again thanks for all the input.
Frank

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by ivangene

sorry - I had to fix this...they are not more dangerous to drive....

but I agree, get a more modern car for a kid - old cars for the old men

When I was a kid, I drove some damn old cars - while my mom and dad drove the newer ones! Early-60s Pontiacs and Fords were what I got to drive (and fill the tank - OUCH.)

I would be concerned about a 16-year-old and a car with driving characteristics that invite on-road shenannigans and general hooning about. I remember some crazy schitt I did in those cars, and they were not Porsches by any stretch, LOL. I like the project part - father/son stuff like that is great. But then giving the car over to a new driver? I don't think that's so wise. These cars can demand all of your attention and all of your years of on-road skills, and I would hate a great bonding project to end poorly because a young man didn't have all the necessary skills to handle the car.

But every kid is different. I had oversteer mastered within a week of receiving my driver's license. And I've spent the rest of my driving career mastering the art of steering with the throttle.

[timmy2]

Get the car built, then take your son to some DE track events and put him in driving school.
No better way to learn.