How Do You Hold The Steering Wheel?

[jyl]

Just wondering, how do you hold the steering wheel?

In other words, in sharp turns do you shuffle your hands around the rim so that they stay in the same position relative to your body, or do you keep them planted so they stay in the same position relative to the steering wheel?

I have never thought much about how I was holding the wheel before - my only rule was "don't wrap your thumbs around the rim" (which comes from 4x4'ing) - but for some reason I am noticing it a lot more with the 911.

[adamnitti]

i use the '9 and 3' position and hand over hand method vic elford talks about in the 911 performance driving handbook when going past 270 degrees.

[A Quiet Boom]

I recline the seat way back, lean my head against the B-pillar, slouch down in the seat and rest my left hand on top of the wheel. Isn't this the way everybody does it? LMAO

[nostatic]

I steer with my knees so I can eat my burger and fries while I drive. Its also useful for talking on the phone and taking notes at the same time. The only real trick is keeping the drink upright between your legs while you navigate corners (cup holders are for wimps)

[dtw]

Originally posted by nostatic
I steer with my knees so I can eat my burger and fries while I drive. Its also useful for talking on the phone and taking notes at the same time. The only real trick is keeping the drink upright between your legs while you navigate corners (cup holders are for wimps)

Me too! But I hate it when I accidentally kick the cord out of my laptop with my knees...then the cord gets tangled up in my feet.. uggh!

[304065]

Some schools teach "shuffle-steer" which is not generally the PCA method. I have always been told to keep hands at 9-3 o'clock and only remove a hand from the wheel when you are going through a hairpin or other tight radius. When you have to take your hand off the wheel when you run out of arm, like when you make a right turn and your hand is down at the 7 o'clock position, you flip your palm 180 degrees and grip the wheel at the same spot.

I personally drive in the old driver's ed style at 10-2 o'clock, but that's only because I find that it takes all of the muscle in my tricep to pull the wheel down to hold the line in corners. This is with a Momo Typ 07 (a modern Prototipo, and the current factory race wheel) which trades off leverage for rate of rotation and overall mass.

At the end of the day it's whatever makes you fast. The only real knock on shuffle-steer is that you don't have a constant reference of where the on-center position is, so that when you begin to unwind the wheel after the apex, you don't have a natural unwinding reference assuming the turn is constant-radius. But a lot of better drivers than me shuffle-steer, so, if you are more comfortable and are turning better lap times, tell 'em to go pound sand.

[Jack Olsen]

I can't lie, since pictures on this board show me with one hand high and in the center. This is wrong, I know.

But I think there's a danger to getting too strict with hand-position rules. Sometimes, for example, it makes good sense to let go of the wheel -- since it can correct for a spin faster and more accurately than the driver can. And shuffling versus locking at 9 and 3 should be dictated by the turns more than by any philosophy, in my opinion.



(But take what I say with a grain of salt, since I still haven't broken the habit of occasionally leaving one hand on the shifter and the other on the middle center of the wheel.)

[Sean Hamilton]

10 to 2.
Seat back upright, for bent arms.

[pwd72s]

10-2, but I'm still using the original big wheel. Also, being an old fart, I shuffle, usually in anticipation of an upcoming corner. Street driving only these days, but was also my technique when I did do track stuff. Autocross? Things happened so quickly, I often "strayed" from what I planned on doing...then it became a "whatever works" thing.

[bell]

i use 9 & 3 o'clock. i avoid getting my hands crossed up too much incase there is a need for more input. NEVER hook your thumbs in the wheel, it's a broken thumb waiting to happen if you do.
use what feels comfortable for your driving style, also autocrossing is a good cheap way to work on trying different methods.

[Eric Coffey]

I too use the 9 & 3 position (on most wheels), but I DO lock my thumbs (snug, but not a death grip) in the wheel. I find that it provides a lot better feedback, and it is a more natural position for your hand. Yes, I am fully aware of the broken-thumb-effect. However, if I'm ever in a position where contact is imminent, or realize that I have just become a "passenger", I will rapidly unhook my thumbs and remove my hands from the wheel completely a split second before impact.

[Jack Olsen]

I was told to rest the pads of your thumbs on the facing surface of the wheel -- that the pads will give you the most direct feedback. Plus, you won't snap a thumb.

[widebody911]

As far a track ergonomics, this is what I learned from one TracQuest instructor, who felt strongly enough about it that he me stop and re-adjust everything.

Seat: scoot it up and raise the back such that with your arms stretched out, the steering wheel is just past your wrists. For short people like me (6'2") this puts you in kind of a cramped kiddie-kart stance, but it does help you with better leverage on the wheel, and for me resulted in much less shoulder fatigue.

Hands: 9 & 3 or 10 & 2, whichever is better for the wheel you're using. Thumbs on the face of the wheel, not hooked thru (I actually learned that in fire truck driving school). Only take your hands off the wheel for an OTE or other incident, or to shift. Shuffle steering was not recommended for track driving, but might be appropriate for auto-x.

Jack - you and I are the only ones looking at your hands; kinda like when women tell ya "Excuse me, my eyes are up here!"

[Eric Coffey]

Jack-

Yeah, I think this is pretty much one of those "to each his own" and "do what works for you" deals (as mentioned earlier).
Two other significant factors for me are a smaller diameter wheel, and no power steering. On smaller diameter wheels, using my thumbs gives me a bit more leverage, more range of motion, and aids in grip. To me, it seams that resting your thumbs on the facing surface reduces sensitivity and leverage (grip), and, is less natural/comfortable.
You are right about the pads of the thumbs, it is just that if you rest your thumbs on the wheel, they are getting input on the vertical plane. If you lock your thumbs (on a wheel with a meaty rim & spokes), they are getting input from the horizontal plane. Also I don't really "lock" my thumbs down into place either. I simply make use of the spoke-to-rim joint.

Try this: raise your hands out in front of you, elbows bent, chest level, as if you are "air driving". Don't just ball your hands up either, pretend you are actually gripping a steering wheel. If you let your hands become totally relaxed, they will naturally fall into that "kung-fu" grip position, which lends itself to driving with your thumbs resting on the spokes.
Here's another one: While "air driving", turn the "wheel" as far as you can in either direction using the thumb-lock method. Now do the same with your thumbs resting on the imaginary facing surface. It should be pretty apparent that you can achieve more steering input (lock) with the thumb-lock method.

For even better results, do this the next time you have the front end of your car up on jack stands, or use the wheel on a driving arcade game.

On the other hand, if you prefer shuffle steering primarily, then resting your thumbs on the facing surface is probably the only way to go.



P.S. -

The only vehicle that self-corrects for skids/slides is a motorcycle. Most cars will have a tendency to return the wheels back to center, due to wheel castor. So, letting go of the wheel in a slide would not be a good thing!

[Efrain68912]

I hold the wheel at roughly 9 and 3, thumbs upward and without gripping the wheel hard. I usually don't have to shuffle steer, but if the corner is tight enough I will. A piece of white tape on the top of the wheel serves as a good reference.

Watch the in car video at this page. It is the red 67 911 that was in the August edition of Excellence.

http://www.vararacing.com/Videos1.html

[304065]

Now THAT is some TAPE, Efrian! There is NOTHING like an early 911 SCREAMING along the track-- you can see the vintage speedo climb up well over 100, and the tacho needle go past the 9:00 position! Don't know whether he's rotated the tach like most of us, but from the sound of things he's revving the HECK out of it.

The interesting part is where he goes agro at the end-- you can hear the tires begin to slide, then massive left lock to open up the radius, then the car catches,and he takes the correction back out! Plenty of hand-over hand work when you are making that big of a move with the wheels. But well handled by the driver and it doesn't look like he lost any positions, only time!

Watching this has only strengthened my resolve that the NEXT race car will be a 911R clone. . .heh heh heh.

[jluetjen]

Curious, I raced for about 6 years with the SCCA and I took Skip Barber, and I never heard a lot of discussion about hooking or not-hooking the thumbs. Based on this thread I went back and consulted my panel of World Champion F1 drivers for their inputs (Ok, I checked the pictures in their books!)

Jackie Stewart: Semi-hooked thumbs. He drives (drove?) with his thumbs opposite his index fingers. They are across the inside of the wheel rim, but just.

Nikki Lauda: Hooked Thumbs. I looked at a number of pictures and his thumbs went around the wheel rim to be resting on top of his index fingers.

Alain Prost: Hooked thumbs. Just like Nikki.
Ayrton Senna: Hooked thumbs.

I'm not convenient to my VCR, so Michael Schumacher was not available to comment.

Personally, I hold the wheel like Jackie, either at 9&3 or 10&2, I tend to switch from one to the other so that my arms don't get cramped. I try not to move my hands off of the wheel, but in cars which require shifting the hands in a hairpin, I'll shuffle. Finding straight ahead tends to be a feel thing rather then a visual thing, especially if the car has any trail or caster in the front end which will make the steering self centering. My seating position is upright, but with the arms only slightly bent. I'm kind of lanky and I hate being cramped to the wheel. If I was racing a NASCAR Stocker on an oval with an assymetrical set-up and stagger, I might consider moving the seat closer to get the leverage. But I consider oval driving a special case. Besides, I don't drive a stock car on an oval. Alternatively, in a formula car, I tend to sit a little further back so that my elbow don't get fouled up in the narrow cockpit. But in the 911, seatback up, elbows about 3-4 inches below horizontal.

[Don Wohlfarth]

Thom was off to a good start with having the proper seating position. Adjust the seat so that when you have your back firmly against the seat you can extend your arms so that your wrists rest on the top center part of the wheel. When you place your hands on the wheel 9-3, 10-2, your elbows will cocked something like a 45 degree angle.
Shuffle steering is a preferred method of steering for a couple of reasons. Sometimes you cannot turn the wheel far enough without repositioning your hands. Since this doesn't happen on every turn you will not be as comfortable as you would be with shuffle steering where you are constantly repositioning your hands. Shuffle steer will also force you to keep your hands on the upper part of the wheel and will keep you from crossing your arms.
As you gain car control skills you will know where the front wheels are pointed so you shouldn't have to rely on a piece of tape on the steering wheel to tell you. When you no longer know where the front wheels are pointed something has happened and you are no longer in control of your car. You may have hit curbing and the wheel is yanked out of your hands, you have hit oil and/or you have lost traction with the back end coming around or you have let go of the steering wheel for some reason but you are no longer in control. Sometimes a "little" counter steering will help you regain control but be careful that you do not try to overcorrect. You do not want to rely on the center mark on your wheel as trying to center your steering as it may be too much overcorrection. When you find yourself in a spin, have tried to corect by looking where you want to go, not staring at a wall or tree, put both feet in and come to a complete stop.

[jluetjen]

Sometimes a "little" counter steering will help you regain control but be careful that you do not try to overcorrect. You do not want to rely on the center mark on your wheel as trying to center your steering as it may be too much overcorrection. When you find yourself in a spin, have tried to corect by looking where you want to go, not staring at a wall or tree, put both feet in and come to a complete stop.

Skip Barber's program does a great job of teaching spin recovery. To distill a very subtle subject down to a few lines.

1) When the tail comes out, steer into the spin while looking where you want to go. (Bertl Roos also teaches the "Look where you are going philosophy).

2) If you catch the back end before it's too late - don't congratulate yourself. It's not over yet! Anticipate and gently start taking the lock out of the steering to control the recovery. If you wait until the rear end starts to head back in line you'll be chasing it on the other end and you quite likely spin off in the other direction.

3) It's not uncommon that you will have to repeat steps 1 and 2 on the other side. This is known as a "tank slapper". If you are good you'll reduce the osolations(?) each time until you are travelling straight. If you get behind the car will spin. Go to step 5.

4) If you are really good, you can anticipate the initial spin and the first recovery well enough that most people will never notice the event. They'll just see the tail gently come out and then straighten out.

5) The old standby which Don quoted really works. "When you spin - both feet in. If in doubt both feet out (ie. off the pedals and go back to step 1)".

I've seen the mark on the steering wheels on a lot of professional race cars. For some reason, especially touring cars. My experience is that I'm generally focused as far down the road as I can see, especially when cornering. So I'm not paying attention to the guages or marks on the steering wheel. The only exceptions are to check the guages on a straight and to check the tach when shifting or to make note for later reference. So if I'm never looking at the steering wheel during the exit of a corner, what's the benefit to marking the steering wheel?

[jluetjen]

Watch the in car video at this page. It is the red 67 911 that was in the August

Efrain; you've inspired me to start a new thread...