Separate motor from transmission, remove clutch plate, pressure plate, and flywheel

Mount engine to the yoke and lift engine up into the engine stand
Remove:

Muffler, brackets, and engine mount braces
engine tins
heater motor and ducts
crank shaft sensor and revolution sensor, head temp sensor and all associated wirings
intake manifolds and runners and throttle housing and fuel injection rails
alternator and fan loosen and disconnect wirings from the back
shroud and all wiring above the engine
Engine oil cooler
flip upside down ... and remove
cat converter, and o2 sensor
headers
turn right side up and remove
valve covers, rocker arms
timing box covers, chain tensioners, sprockets
Remove cam shafts
timing boxes
Cam towers
heads
cylinders
Pistons
split case
crank shaft and intermediate shaft
oil pump

Cross shaft and 4 nuts are off trans but it's not that easy to separate. Any suggestions? Lots of rocking? Its sitting on a dolly about level with the motor which is still on the ATV jack.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379784160.jpg

Meanwhile I'm going thru disassembly. Finding some nice details like the fact that the electrical connections @ alternator can only be reassembled in the right order as they are keyed to the diameter of the studs. Lots of oil on the top front of the case by the good old triangle. A few questions that Bentley isn't clear on

-Cyl head temp sensor - remove entirely or is is possible to disconnect the elec conxn like the oil press/temp gauges?
-Is the idea to pass various DME sensor wires thru the metal shrouds so they can come off with the intake as one big assembly?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379784273.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379784288.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379784462.jpg

First surprise...

Airbox is cracked on the back / top. Anyone seen this before? Anyone selling one?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379796623.jpg

Fuel Injection then & now
 

Pulled the injectors, I'll be bringing them to Marren Fuel Injection in Oxford CT for cleaning and balancing. Happened to also have the SPICA mechanical injection pump from my Alfa sitting out. SPICA & DME - I like fuel injection in all forms. In fact I have only ever owned owned one carbureted vehicle, an early monster.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379810221.jpg

Starter comes off. Slave cylinder comes off. Cross shaft comes off the tranny
See the fork flopping away from the T/O bearing.
Four nuts off the tranny and the gearbox must come apart from the engine. Nothing holds it back. If you can get a spatula in between the gearbox and the tranny and wedge it out, it may help. But at that point, it MUST come off.

That's a drag, but those things have all gotten a bit brittle by now. My surprise was finding the bottom-rear plastic tab broken off, leaving the wire clip/hook nothing to grab onto. I improvised a fix with a piece of brass hardware used to hold basement windows closed. There are numerous postings on this forum with fix-ideas, and there's always the used-parts forum. They've come up from time to time, but they seem to go pretty fast.


GK

Check check check....

The tranny is riding on three studs which are fixed to the engine case, correct? It is feasible that it is just hanging on these, much the way for instance the breather housing on top of the case took some slapping to ride up its studs, the tranny is this on a grand scale. I'm twisting it back and forth and can see it moving free of the motor but its hard to pull it away without the motor wanting to come towards me. I need a helper.

Gear box rides on four studs on the engine case. They are approximately at 2, 4, 8, and 10 o'clock positions. You take three nuts off, and one barrel nut off (at the starter) and If you can wiggle the gearbox at all, then it will slide off with some persuasion.

r-mm, how long did it take you total to get the drivetrain out? I'm doing an overall rebuild after a track incident earlier this year and I'm trying to decide if I really want to do the removal myself before I send the car to the body shop. It really boils down to available time, it never ceases to amaze me how much life gets in the way of me getting to the things I really want to do.

You can do a decent airbox repair, I did mine. I used black RTV and some fiberglass screen material (window screen type) and its basically invisible and has held for 4 years. Still looks fine. Screen is on the inside with the RTV and a little outside. Or use any black resiliant material you prefer. Kinda like repairing fiberglass but more flexy.
As others will say, you may be encouraged to replace the Head Temp gage, and the two position sensors while out. Just far easier to do now and if original, they are very old. Super easy to do when out.

Also FYI, if you're not tearing all the way down, put rags in all those intake holes or any holes that a dropped fastener could fall into. Be diligent on this to prevent alot of headache! Be careful.

Have you separated the tranny from the engine yet? don't forget the shaft that holds the clutch fork in. It will not separate unless you remove that shaft first.

Look at the end of this slideshow:

87 Carrera engine drop (1 of 36)

Thanks whiz. I appreciate the slide show, for someone who has never done a drivetrain drop, the pics help a lot.

Michael, i believe the full drop took me three days, i went slow, started disconnections on a tuesday fully expecting hitches along the way, aiming for a weekend drop, but it came out rather smoothly.

As many here have said, next time it will likely be a one day affair.
Thanks for the tips jesse, i now have rags in the intake holes, but i will be removing the heads as well. Ill give the rtv a shot.

I got the trans off the motor. Needed just a tiny bit of careful prying to get it started then I was able to work it off.

I couldn't find a spec for the clutch thickness service limit, but its a rubber centered sachs so It'll likely be replaced with a OEM spring centered disc.

Has anyone run the "power friction" spring centered clutch? Sells for just under $200.

Although, for $170 more the SPEC stage 1 kit included tools and a pressure plate. Can anyone weigh in on clutch choice? This is a street car and will remain stock with the exception that I may add a chip and exhaust at some point.

Finally - I was about to remove the flywheel but thought twice. I'm not touching the bottom end and the rear main seal was dry. Any reason it should come off, besides being able to flex my new XZN sockets?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1379993125.jpg

Nobody goes in this deep without replacing the rear main seal behind the flywheel. It is bad karma.

Flywheel has been removed, engine has been leakdown tested (cold obviously).

I started a new thread, but at a glance here are the numbers. Very confusing.

Compression (done warm, engine in car)
1: 175
2:187.5
3:190
4:175
5:180
6:180

Leakdown (done cold)
1: 12%
2: 1%
3: 20%
4: 25%
5: 2%
6: 70%!!!

Something wrong with those numbers. 70% leakdown with 180 compression just not gonna happen. Something maybe got into the valve seats (Carbon)?

Agree. There is a reasonable amount of carbon in the intake runners. I have been careful to disturb it as little as possible and vacuumed around the area before removing the intake manifold. How does one avoid this?

More observations during disassembly:

1. Clutch rubber looks very healthy, compared to the dog bitten monstrosities I've seen some people posting pictures of. Naturally it will be replaced. They flywheel looks fine to me, throw out bearing spins perfectly. I've read many posts on this and am comfortable cleaning and re-using the flywheel but it would seem foolish to reuse the TOB. The way the parts vs kit are priced means its about $350 extra to do the flywheel as well. I know that sounds like peanuts and I've read some nasty comments elsewhere to the tune of if you can't throw money around don't own a 911, but I'm still a bit unsure about how to proceed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380167502.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380167536.jpg

2. The flywheel pilot bearing does not feel so smooth. Is it common for these to go south? Since the flywheel looks like the PP (messy but no scoring or burning) I'll clean its surface and reuse it. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380167801.jpg

3. I just noticed that the main T fuel lines have been replaced at some point, with common hose clamps and FI hoses. They didn't leak a drop! I'm now conflicted about replacing them, especially since its been confirmed several times that this job can be done with the motor and most accessories in situ.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380167929.jpg

Also has anyone replaced this part, called "pipeline" 930 110 328 05 ?

I'd rather not pay $145 for a new assembly if I can just replace the hose, which is cracked. It appears that the hose itself is stepped ? Has anyone dealt with this?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380170743.jpg

On the flywheel: The definitive word on that is it's OK to resurface IF you update to a spring-centered disk, and as long as the machinist cuts both the contact surface and the lip that the PP mounts to.

Great progress!

Just my 2 cents. If you have any docs. that the fuel lines aren't "that" old, meaning have been replaced previously, I wouldn't replace them. (you are now an engine removal expert anyway)
I actually purchased a rubber center clutch disc. from someone that had a newer barely used one and remember, they were OEM and lasted many years originally. They get some bad press now when they get very old and fail which of course everything does anyway. Your call.
Think I've seen comments that rubber ones "feel" better/different vs. spring ones when engaging. My rubber unit failed after maybe 60k miles/10 years/ and alot of DE's but luckily it still got me home as it wasn't a complete separation.
Good find on that vac. hose, surely looks like something you could replace more cost effectively than +100 $$. I'd do some searching.

Jesse - you read my mind re clutch. This is a street car and I want the clutch to be as friendly as possible. I hate chatter etc and I was all set to use another rubber clutch disc but didn't see one sold on PP. I was just on google as I read this and found this kit, which seems to be a good deal at $764:
Sachs - Auto Parts Warehouse
Where did you get your rubber centered disc from?

Also, I hope this isn't bad manners... but... I do see the spring centered clutch disc kit for up to $100 less than it's listed on PP. Don't worry, four figure sums will be spent on PP regardless, and I'll ask them to price match. https://importecautoparts.com/parts/part_number/950%20116%20911%2001/3

I was posting my clutch saga 2 years back and "KTL" on the forum responded that he had one and a nice pressure plate that he'd taken off someones car fairly new. He sold it all to me for a very nice price and threw in a couple of used throw out bearings. I used one of his and the pressure plate since it looked a bit nicer than mine. If the clutch lasts 5 years or so, I'll be happy. I know how to get it apart now so no biggie. You might post on the classifieds whether anyone has a newer rubber clutch laying around, think some get taken off during "while you're in there" activities and they are still in good shape.

Looked at that auto parts site, I'd be suspicious whether that photo is accurate. Sometimes its a "stock" photo vs. actual part. You might call them to confirm first. Like I said, I got mine from a forum member who has a shop.

I found the full kit for $685 on Amazon. Given their excellent customer service and free 2 day shipping (prime membership), I'm going to give it a shot. After thinking this through and reading this thread I'm comfortable going forward with the rubber clutch. I'm pretty sure the one in my photo was the original and this longish post summarizes my feelings exactly. Peter Zimmerman weighing in on this side doesn't hurt either.

http://www.amazon.com/Sachs-W0133-1597118-SAC-Clutch-Kit/dp/B001HRH1XY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380207297&sr=8-1&keywords=W0133-1597118

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/911-forum/274378-gear-rattle.html

Made something cool
 

I lasercut some acrylic cover plates for the intake ports on the heads. Fit perfectly! Watch your valves in action!

I could be convinced to cut up some more for anyone who has made it this far in my thread and answered my interminable questions.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1380230642.jpg

Personally I would replace the clutch for peace of mind. Inspect the flywheel and machine as needed, and replace the pilot bearing. Consider throwout bearing age/miles for replacement (WIIT... While I'm In There) and let the fuel line slide.

I went ahead and ordered the new Sachs rubber clutch kit from amazon for $685. Will report on fit Tuesday. Going to do the pilot bearing as well. On these cars does one press it out as in hydraulically?

I'll likely re-hose and FI clamp the fuel lines.

Use a pilot bearing puller.

Did not know such a thing existed. Thanks.

I found what I believe to be the correct Bosch crank position sensor on amazon for $55. Yes the picture is wrong, but the part number coincides with what many Pelicans have said is a workable replacement and amazon ships free both ways so I ordered one as a test. Will report back Tuesday.

Bosch 0261210002 Reference Mark Sensor : Amazon.com : Automotive

Think I saw a fix resendly
 

I maybe wrong however, I think I saw a post were John Walker used a shrink wrap fix on that hose.

You are quite right - Smoove1010 put me onto this thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/428782-repair-vs-replacement-options-part.html

Lots of progress since my last post. Got the motor up on my HF 750# stand & ebay yoke - fit is perfect. Got all the HX nuts off, some with their studs, no drama with PBlaster & MAPP torch. Cleaning up the front of the case before removing the rocker arms. I just mocked up the 8mm/5mm allen keys to remove the rockers to make sure mine fit - the 8mm side looks awfully shallow and the bolt heads themselves look slightly oxidized. Are these stubborn fasteners? I'd hate to have won the war with the HX only to strip one of these.

A few terrible phone pics:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381285312.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381285322.jpg

Regarding the rocker shaft fasteners: remember that you turn the 5mm screw, you use a hex key to hold the 8mm nut stationary. On mine, the 8mm nut barely wanted to turn at all due to the mild corrosion holding it all in place. The 5mm key goes securely into the screw head, though the screw heads on mine needed to be cleaned out a little bit.

Keep that momentum going!
GK

Thanks! So you didn't have any problems getting these out? Does heat help here? Presuming yes as this is also a steel fastener in an alum threaded part.

I had no problems with this, other than to clean the crud out of the screw and nut heads to make sure the allen keys got good purchase. The fasteners came right out. I was very careful that I didn't damage the rocker shafts or their bores when removing the shafts - sliding them out through the narrow-flange side helped a lot since the bore in the narrow flange is somewhat protected from any oxidation/corrosion. Some very gentle heat (like from a heat gun, not a torch) might help here, but I didn't need that.

All rockers are out, cam nuts are loosened.

I wasn't quite prepared for the next steps:
-Lock tensioner down using 3mm pin through hole in tensioner body (I don't think my chanellocks are big enough... are pliers the best way to do this?) I'm pretty sure I have a 3mm punch.

-Then what? Bentley doesn't say - presume I remove the single large hex on the tensioner?

-Special tool P204 can be used to brace idler sprocket before removing tensioner (is this required? I can't quite tell what its doing... just holding the spr0cket in place while the tensioner is slacked?).

-Remove cam sprocket lockpin using P212 oe equiv - what would this be to civilians?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381369323.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381369336.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381369349.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381369364.jpg

Major Milestone
 

Heads are off!

For anyone reading this...

-Tensioners can simply be (carefully) pryed off, no need to compress/pin them
-Chain ramps are not secured by fasteners but are sticky. I find my plastic "interior trim" prybar kit is a godsend for stuff like this and prevents me from reaching for the metal one
-Woodruff key SUCKS to get out. I started it with tiny pliers then whacked at the free end with a punch and small deadblow
-Cam retainer plate (retained by 3 screws) isn't dying to come off. Heat helped a lot, as did putting the bolt back into the cam to give me something to pull it out with.

Besides that, its pretty easy!

Looks like I have the KS Alusil pistons. I confess I don't know which side of the piston the marking are on but they are certainly an even light gray. Anyone care to comment on the condition of the heads and cylinders?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461474.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461516.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461530.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461544.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461564.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461579.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1381461635.jpg