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HTH Thor http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385309134.jpg |
Revisiting the guide tube since I'm now ready to install it - I bought these socket head cap screws to replace the countersunk screws:
Pelican Parts - Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche & BMW Can anyone confirm if they provide enough clearance for the G50 TOB? I can't recall how I ended up with those or where I read that they would work. Quote:
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The socket head cap screws look like they should fit since they partially sit in the countersunk holes. I don't love putting a non countersunk fastener in a countersunk hole, but it squared itself up and these are not hi-torque fasteners.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385325092.jpg I got a new hose to re-do the crossover line I had made too short. In removing the Oetiker stepless clamps (the ones designer for hose) from the too short line, I noticed that they have quite a bite. Did I over tighten them or is some crimping inevitable with any high pressure clamp? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385325192.jpg This time I made the crossover a bit long, on purpose. I figure that a little extra slack will give me more routing options and I can stop vibration by zip tying it to other things. I didn't clamp down the D/S just in case someone cries foul and suggests a straighter shot. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385325275.jpg |
Epic thread r-mm - been reading thru this all day. Hope to be able to accomplish this with my 911 and this thread will be amazingly helpful.
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You can do it! I'll pay it forward and try to help you as much as some of the guys on this thread who did the drop n top before me have been helping me.
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Rus, did you change the CHT??
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Yep, got a two wire CHT. It's dangling from the harness now cause I can't install the D/S front tin until I drop the motor from the yoke.
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I'd just replace the guide tube screws with the same pan head style regular philips head screws. If they were to strip in the future? No big deal. They're easy to remove with a fluted screw extractor. Just make sure you don't loctite the screws in place. That's not necessary.
That impression on the hose is typical of Oetiker clamps. They grip nicely. Next installation of the clamps, don't do a full crimp where you squeeze the ear completely closed. Base your crimp on how much squish of the hose occurs as you're closing the crimp. But even though the first installation looks like it was too tight, you can see it didn't harm the hose. There should be an odd shaped plastic bracket and long socket head bolt that clamps the metal portion of the fuel line to the vertical bracket. You can see it's part #26 in this picture http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385414645.jpg The bracket also carries the rubber portion of the rear crossover line. I've always been fortunate enough to lift the engine by myself or with one guy thanks to the equalizer/spreader bar that came with my cheapo Sam's Club foldable hoist. We do it just like Thor shows with the lifting loop at the rear and the factory engine crossbar installed on the engine mount console. Some chain, large nuts & bolts and a large lifting hook from the hardware store are all the parts we needed to arrange the the equalizer for clearing the intake at the rear and clearing the fan shroud at the front. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385415225.jpg Nice thing about the equalizer is it allows you to balance the lifting of the engine, with or without the trans attached, just by cranking the trolley rod at the top. Not saying the equalizer is a must. Obviously Thor's method of using the lifting strap works fine. I already had the equalizer so I might as well put it to good use. |
Wow I'm nearly certain that I did not have #26 when I took my car apart. I took really good pictures, didn't loose any parts (I think) and can't recall seeing that. Sure its not a turbo or 915 piece? I checked PET but is it possible that there's a mistake?
The x-over line had the factory crimps on it so I'm pretty sure mine wasn't monkeyed with but who knows. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385416748.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385416782.jpg |
I'm certain that's a proper piece for our Carrera fuel injection system. Same bracket used on both 915 and G50. I actually have one of those brackets on my '87. I remember it well, trying to figure out the orientation of it when putting it back together after an engine drop & intake removal. I'll sell you mine for one millllllllion dollars? ;)
No big deal if you don't have it. A handful of cable tie zip strips can replicate the function of the fancy bracket pretty easily? |
RSR fuel line bracket! Very rare.
Yeah I'll do zip-ties. |
Guys a few connection questions -
I don't think the breather tube holder was fastened to the airbox when my engine came out. PET lists the fasteners as "tapping screw Bz 4, 8x16" what is this in English? Or - any reason not to use a long M4 bolt + nut? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385437091.jpg I finally sorted out the 90 degree line with Len. However I realized that the bracket that is part of the hard T was never fastened down on my motor after someone re-hosed it. Len sent me picture below. It looks like the bracket attaches to the regulator bracket. This is a REALLY tight fit. I monkeyed with that bracket a bit but still, this seems tricky. What's the sequence of assembly to make this junction work? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385437213.jpg I can't get the bracket on the hard line to clear the nut on the right side of the regulator. Do I need to take stuff apart to make this happen? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385437280.jpg |
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Thanks guys, I will proceed as such.
Smoove - believe me, while I'm working on the back of the motor, barely getting my smallest wrenches and pliers in the guts back there while holding a shop light between my neck and shoulder... I shudder to think about trying to work on this area with the motor installed. Quote:
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As that is just a breather line why not just make up something to stop it from wagging around to make life easier if you ever want to remove the airbox? I assume that's why the PO didn't bother screwing it back into place. Can you notch out that bracket so the breather line just snaps into it? Won't go anywhere, no need to ever remove the screws (or bolts if you like)...
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Photo from the internet. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385486746.jpg |
Happy thanksgiving all. Ill be back at it tomorrow, hopefully getting pretty damn close to hitting the key this weekend. What is the recommended running in oil? I tried to be as careful as possible when cleaning parts and keeping openings to the case plugged, but to be conservative i plan on changing oil fairly soon into running in. Ive had the car on dino before the rebuild but was unaware about the whole zddp etc thing and will use rotella, vr1 or similar as my std from here out. But...anything in particular i want to do for the first start?
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Nothing special besides good oil. Get a case (3-one gal jugs) of 15w40 Chevron Delo 400 LE from Costco
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I used Rotella for the first 500 miles, and just changed it out for the Delo from Costco.
I was most concerned about the rings breaking in, and they did so pretty fast. There was no detectable oil consumption in that first 500 miles. My anecdotal experience, therefore, was that the Rotella worked fine for breaking in the rings. I say that fully understanding that ring break-in is a result of a combination of factors of which oil selection is one. (How's that for a disclaimer!) I did follow what seems to be the forum-favorite break-in routine: Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power Looking forward to hearing how your first light goes! GK |
Do you guys literally not idle at all? Do you do your leak checks during the oil pressure building pre cranking, then just set right out and drive?
Valve adjustment at 500 mi? Smoove why the switch from rotella to delo? I see delo mentioned in many break in threads but not the zddp threads. Does it have the recommended ppms? No costco for me but looks like autozone has gallons of both rotella and delo for $18. |
Here was my approach - I went this way after digesting dozens of threads from respected voices on this forum, and taking what I thought made the most sense from each:
- Pulled fuel pump relay, cranked engine over until oil pressure built up - took less than :30; - Installed fuel pump relay, turned key on to active fuel pump - inspected all fuel lines and connections visually for leakage while pump was running and system pressurized; - Start car - lit up pretty quick! Raised idle for a few seconds, then shut-er down for the night. Inspected all oil connections for leakage. Replaced bumper, rear valance, etc. - Next day - started the car, took her out for the first break-in run. Since the cams and rockers were put back as they were, I didn't do the 20-minute high-idle cam-break-in procedure, I instead skipped right to the ring-break-in procedure. I've spent more time reading "best oil" threads than I care to admit (as I'm sure you have) and there's plenty of great info on this, some of it contradictory. There are recent thread entries from respected Pelicans endorsing both Rotella and Delo, so I picked up what was convenient at the time. I'm thinking I'll readjust the valves if/when I notice that they are getting noisy, but no later than 2,000 miles - probably next Summer depending on how much driving I do. She's been running so well I don't care to mess with a good thing. I'll probably be doing this as much to re-torque the head nuts and check for rocker shaft leakage/movement as checking valve clearance. I'll see if I can locate a few of the oil-related posts that swayed me and forward them to you. GK |
Engine is off-stand, on the ATV jack. Balance point seems like it'll be better w/o muffler.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385930032.jpg Flywheel shaft seal is installed, dry on the OD, tiny bit of oil on the ID, assembly lube on the back to retain the spring while I tapped it home. Tapped is a euphamism here... there were some more forceful blows needed. I used a combo of a large PVC pipe to start it as square as I could then a wood block to finish it off. It is more or less flush with the case, which is what the old one looked like. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385930162.jpg I got the T line support fixed to the regulator bracket. I realized that I'll need to clamp the hose that runs from the end of the T to the filter now as there won't be room for the oetiker pliers later. Do I have it clocked correctly? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385930346.jpg A warning to anyone following: don't forget to install the exhause x-over before the rear tin. And fasten down the CHT sensor before threading and clamping the connector end down otherwise you will twist it badly. |
Also - can someone tell me what the flywheel pilot bearing does? Unless I'm missing something, i can't see what bears on its ID? The end of the input shaft?
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Yup, it supports the trans input shaft and the clutch disc that ride on it..
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Few more dumb clutch questions. Not an assembly I have worked on many times previously.
- I have all the pressure plate to flywheel bolts at 18 ft-lbs and there is still a gap between the pressure plate at the flywheel (see 12 o'clock where shiny new pressure plate meets crusty old flywheel ring gear). I just want to be sure that I wasn't supposed to tap the clutch/pp assembly all the way home before torquing the bolts? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385949017.jpg - The little packet of grease that came with the sachs kit is labeled spline grease and I therefore presume it goes on the splines of the input shaft. Anywhere else? I think I recall someone saying earlier to put a bit between the slave cyl plunger and release arm bearing srf? - Anyone spot anything weird? What's the hole in the P/S front tin for? (look up and to the right of the two bolts holding the tin to the oil cooler) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385949128.jpg |
Why not clamp the fuel hose in place at the regulator and re-do the clamp on the other end? Meaning, do the clocking at the fuel filter.
Yep the grease goes on the input shaft splines. Use a brush and put it on very thin. Old toothbrush works good since the bristles are stiff enough to brush off the excess. Also put a thin coat of the grease on the release bearing & release fork contact points. I think the clutch is OK. The 9 bolts do a very good job of pulling the clutch housing in place. So I don't think there's a gap where the clutch housing meets the flywheel surface. Nonetheless, doublecheck your tightness and go around all the bolts again. It's easy for the bolts to be loose due to all the criss-crossing you do as you tighten down the clutch. The 20 min. high idle thing is contrary to what you want to do for breaking in the rings. I think the 20 min. recommendation has been misinterpreted by a lot of people over the years. The 20 min. is a recommendation to not let the rpms fall below 2000 in order to ensure the cams get adequate lubrication. But that doesn't mean you should let it idle at 2000 for 20 min. Drive it right away and just don't let the rpms fall below 2000. |
Yep, clocking at the fuel filter should work. There is a built in curvature to the hose I'd like to get right, but that'll relax with time I suppose.
Does anyone have a picture of a stock sachs G50 clutch and flywheel, mated to help me be sure that the gap I'm seeing is acceptable? In other words, when the shoulder of the PP is resting on the step in the flywheel, is there a gap visible between the two when viewed from the outside, like the pic in my prev post? |
billjam went thru a lot of grief trying to make up his custom clutch in a 3.6 conversion. He posted this picture when he was comparing the stacked height of a stock clutch vs. his work in progress
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1368419198.jpg |
Awesome - thanks Kevin!
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Tranny is on the motor... but not without a pain.
Lessons learned: 1. I didn't have the clutch aligned. I must have put the alignment tool in then removed it too early (when the flywheel to PP bolts were finger tight maybe?) This time I left it in until everything was torqued down. 2. Check for engine tin interference. The P/S front tin @ TDC sensor is very floppy and had gotten distorted so that it was not sitting on top of the case but down by the trans/case mating surfaces. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386045996.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386046007.jpg While wrestling with the trans I could see the teeth of the starter gear gnaw the bellhousing a bit. With everything torqued down, I rotated the motor and found that for about 10-15 degrees of its rotation I can hear and feel some resistance from the starter gear to bellhousing. Is this something to worry about? I know its not great, but my feeling is that over time rotation will wear down the flat spots. |
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As they say, an once of prevention is worth .5 Kilo of something… Search results for: 'stethoscope' http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386048151.jpg |
I can buy one just like it at HF, but what would the remedy be for a dragging ring gear?
I gnarled it a bit when I first put the trans on/off with the clutch misaligned. I lightly filed down the highspots, but presume some more formed on my second trans install or I wasn't aggressive enough with removing them to begin with. |
There should be no interference, I would pull it and see exactly what is happening. You didn't drop it I hope, mine fell 4" off the side of my floor jack and distorted the starter housing (starter was removed). I opened it back up again so the starter went in but there is some sort of misalignment and I have to replace the front housing this winter as it's eating both ring gear and starter gear... doesn't take much at all to mess that housing up!
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It was never dropped. Do the studs on the case bend?
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Wouldn't matter if the studs are bent a bit as long as the mating surfaces close-up when you tighten the nuts. Loosen up the trans nuts and shift the trans side-side if you can? But I doubt you can shift it much at all.
Once the tip of the mainshaft engages the pilot bearing in the flywheel and the release bearing guide tube engages the release bearing, you're not going to shift the trans a whole lot..... It's pretty common to see some teeth marks on the bellhousing of a G50. The large diameter flywheel is really close to the bellhousing in some spots. |
True, once the shaft has engaged and everything is torqued, the tranny should be aligned. I suppose I'm trying to figure out how I gnarled the bellhousing. If the studs are a bit bent or my angle of attack wasn't perfect I suppose I could have gouged the bellhousing on the way in?
Pull it all apart or let it "self machine"? I guess I know what the "right" answer is... just wondering how to get a better result the third time I put it together. |
Hang in there Russ!! You're doing great!!
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Lets start with the important stuff:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386123999.jpg Now that we've established that... The catching sound in the bellhousing was alleviated when I adjusted the position of the motor on the ATV jack I suppose a bit or torsion was being introduced on account of the angle of the two. I have to say that in my case the ATV jack + Dolly has proved to be quite a pain. It is really very difficult to push the jack on account of the flimsy handle. I ended up hitching myself to the thing like a horse and pulling it into the garage. A few questions - I realized a bit late that Wayne's book recommends leveling the motor mount carrier (#6 below) off the heads whereas Bentely didn't say anything about this procedure that I could find. How should I go about doing this at this point? Also in the diagram below, can the bolts #4 be removed with the engine in place? I ask because the muffler I'm using requires a bracket that I won't have until tomorrow. I can't install it on the ATV jack. There are other bolts holding the engine bracket to the engine but it seems like a sort of dicey move. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386124236.jpg Unless I stepped on it without realizing it (possible) the throttle lever doesn't seem long enough to meet up with the crank on the trans. Anyone see anything stupid? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386125425.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386125442.jpg |
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