A 25 year wait for a Targa

[notmytarga]

I have learned volumes from wading through the information and opinions here. I have (finally) become a Porsche owner, and I need to change my user ID.

I have had great respect for 911's and Porsches since high school. The father of one of my classmate's had a new 911S Targa in 1975, but that wasn't the only reason I liked her!

After a divorce I met up with that classmate and now we are married! And the Targa was still in the family!!

My wife's father died tragically in a civil aviation accident 16 years ago, and my mother in law had driven this Targa some, garaged it mostly, but for the last several years it was covered in the driveway, not driven since 1994.

I was patient and only occassionally took peeks under the decaying cover.

A year ago, with my MIL's permission, I took the cover off and scrubbed leaf decay and dirt off. Again asking permission, I tentatively jumper started it. Oil went everywhere. I came back a few days later to clean up the mess and change the oil that was left. The Fram oil filter's element had been compressed inward and the base deformed resulting in the leak. Easy fix, but I still wonder about the cause. This time the engine started and ran smoothly - but the clutch wouldn't disengage. I prepared for another visit to her home 30 miles away. I was told to start the car in first, build some speed and stop with the clutch depressed. I did this several times and then it worked. The engine was running less smoothly and I noticed the tranny wouldn't stay in 3rd and 4th gear. After many stalls I parked the car and over the next four months of visits I checked fuel, ignition etc and couldn't get it to run.

The cars condition:
1975 911S Targa 44,000 mi - always in CA. Metallic Brown
Engine - Original 2.7 with CIS and pop-off installed. No A/C.
Paint - Haze, chipped, gouged and mostly absent over some of engine hatch.
Body - straight except for right rear fender, trace of surface rust totaling the size of a quarter. Hard targa top.
Frame - No rust, original undercoating intact.
Interior - original, no dash or door cracks, each seat has a seam tear.
Brakes - discs rusted, S calipers
Tires - wrong size, good tread, horribly cracked.
Wheels - original Fuchs
Radio - a Blaupunkt with a microphone I heard it one time, then no more.

I got my MIL to agree to have it taken to the local independant Porsche mechanic. Turns out the engine problem was because of corrosion on the points. We agreed to rebuild the transmission. The 3/4 slider was the only worn part, so that was replaced with the synchros, seals and carrier bearings. New clutch to replace the rubber centered one with little wear. The pressure plate mounting bolts looked like they had been tightened with a vice grip - the prior mechanic may not have been the best!


This picture is of the Targa before a thorough cleaning, tires and redoing the wheels.

At this point I wrote a letter describing the costs of restoration and offered to purchase the car from my Mother in Law. I offered her $4,500 with the rationale that it would cost $4,000 to make it driveable and quoted the value from Excellence Market Update.

I brought it home and rebuilt the calipers, refinished the discs, refinished the wheels, new tires, front bearings, replaced the missing hood emblem, painted wiper arms - it began to look pretty but I didn't have an answer from the owner and it wasn't street legal.

I wrote another letter, this one detailing the work and said I would accept my total expenses of $4400 or give her $4500. None of my wife's five siblings want the car but they do want it to stay in the family. She accepted $4,500. So the car is now mine - smogged, registered and insured - to restore as I please. I do not plan to depart from it's stock appearance and would even respray it the same color.

Questions for the Pelicans:
1. Why did the oil filter deform?
2. What would cause isolated wear of the 3/4 slider?
3. Was my offer fair?
4. Should I electively rebuild the 2.7L engine (timecerts, valve guides)? or add tensioners and wait for it to develop problems?

This will be a project and I'm anxious to post pictures of new developments.

[Targa77]

Congrats! I would update to the newer tensioners, change the transmission fluid, oil, all filters, plugs, rotor and adjust the valves. I hope that whoever adjusted your points put a dab of Bosch grease on the lobes of the distributor cam or else the rubber block will wear out really fast (ask me how I know) and it will affect the timing. I would restore it to it's former glory. A little TLC and, of course, money goes a long way. That is one gorgeous car and I would keep it all original. I think that your offer was fair considering that it needs a repaint, new tires, wheels refinished, interior repair, etc. Of course, this is just my humble opinion...

[nostatic]

I think your offer was fair. She wouldn't have gotten that from a dealer. The miles are low, but the paint is lousy, and it hasn't been maintained. You'll end up putting a lot of time and money into it, but it could turn out pretty sweet.

[JeffW]

I think your offer was reasonable. I bought my '76 running O.K. but needing a trans rebuild, some engine resealing, full tune-up, and a few other small things for $5500. It had all the updates like the 11 blade fan and tensioners. I've dumped another 4 grand into between parts I've bought and rebuild of the trans. Mine has a/c though which increases the value alot in Arizona. It a cooker out here.

Jeff

[notmytarga]

It's good to hear that my offer seems fair.

The trans fluid was new with the rebuild. Oil changed ... 2 times now in 150 miles! When the engine was pulled most accessible seals were changed. Adjusting the valves is on the list, along with valve covers, tensioners.

It does have an 11 blade fan but no external oil cooling. With the temp running in the 100's here much of the summer, the lack of A/C decreases the temptation to drive it and heat up the engine.

The local mechanic (now that she is mine I won't need him much) discouraged much driving in the summer heat and said that an A/C would load the engine and make heat even more of a problem.

Do the Thermal Reactors do more harm than good? That topic seems to be kept a little bit under wraps in the posts.

Now My Targa

[Chuck Moreland]

Don't rebuild unless/until you have a problem. Why would you?

Do address the heat issues with that engine.

1 - Eliminate the thermal reactors
2 - Eliminate the air pump
3 - Add an external oil cooler


The head stud pulling problems are a result of excessive operating temps. Take care of the heat and you shouldn't have a problem (unless the damage is already done).

[notmytarga]

Some more pictures. The S calipers had just a little rust outside the dust covers on the pistons and rebuilt nicely. A bicycle pump worked great to express the pistons. I painted the rear calipers black - the S's cleaned up too pretty to hide.



I did the whole enchilada wheel grind to remove the anodized finish then polish and paint. The steps progress to the right.



A recent weekend cleaning - the spare wheel well and battery box are in good condition. Scant surface rust.



Targa77 - the distributor cam is lubed.

What does it take to eliminate the thermal reactors? New SSI heat exchangers? Which ones exactly?

[Chuck Moreland]

SSI is your best option if you want to retain heat. The cheaper route is to get some used early heat exchangers (pre-75) (if you can find some in good shape).

[Wayne 962]

SSIs are illegal for that car in CA - you will have difficulty getting it smogged.

As for a fair price? It doesn't matter, as long as your MIL is happy. Even if you paid $10K for the car, there is a lot of close emotional baggage in the trunk. Sounds like you did the right thing by keeping it in the family.

The oil filter is an odd one, but it may have rusted/corroded from the inside out. If the oil filter is weakened, the oil pressure may have collapsed it. On the other hand, someone may have tried to crush it to remove it previously, and simply couldn't get it off...

???

Congrats again!

-Wayne

[notmytarga]

Wayne - the oil filter was not distorted or mangled like it had been abused during a removal attempt. The base was bulged outward creating the (massive) leak and the element with metal screen with holes looking through the threads was collapsed. Perhaps it was water, sludge, oil geling (Toyota has been warning me about that) that caused the element to be too high resistance. No picture available unless my mechanic still has it - he was intrigued.

I figured the SSI would be a smog issue - but do the inspectors know what is what for equipment on all cars?

What have others in California done with their thermal reactors / heat exchangers?

[JeffW]

I bought my car in San Diego and it had the thermal reactors removed. I'm not sure how he got away with it. I took the smog pump off it when I got it here.

[makaio]

I believe I knew this car when I was a kid. If it is, this is one of the cars that inspired me to own a 911.

[Carl Bauer]

The hard Targa top is a cool feature. Not too many of those out there.

[Hetmann]

Fram filters have been discussed here in the past. The consensus was that they are junk. I would go with Mahle in the future. I think you got a fair deal given that you will be putting a lot of time and effort into making this car right. It's sad to see one of these sit under a cover forgotten.

[Jdub]

Nice find and good work on your part. You are performing due diligence and anyone who will/can handsand a Fuchs is in deep!

The oil filter probably had a stuck bypass where the oil could not flow properly. A Fram filter is something to avoid without a doubt!

John

[yelcab1]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
SSIs are illegal for that car in CA - you will have difficulty getting it smogged.



-Wayne

1975 Cars are now ALL exempt from smog check in california. I just received my license renewal reminder for the 75 308GT4 and it does not require a smog cerificate anymore. What that means is your 75 targa can have an SSI because no one will look.

price is fair if you and your MIL think it's fair.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
SSIs are illegal for that car in CA - you will have difficulty getting it smogged.



-Wayne

Congrats on the car. You don't have to change your screen name. In fact, it helps the fantastic story.

You say you had it smogged. You won't need another smog for 2 years. By then, it will be exempt. Check with the DMV, but the rolling exemption should include '75 model year this January.

[notmytarga]

My first post on this thread was over a year ago - I've continued to work on the car and have replaced the front seat vinyl with skins close to the original.

I upgraded the tensioners and valve covers in March. Turns out the thermal reactors had been removed earlier.

The current project is a restoration repaint - the color may change since I am stripping it down to bare bones.

Here is a picture before I started disassembly. Note the wheels - still a nice shine with minimal upkeep after the anodization was removed 18 months before.

[Paul Franssen]

Good day "notmytarga"! About the price and your MIL, I think (based on what I've been reading on this board) that the price you paid is correct. (to me it seems low, but I think these cars cost more in Europe than they do in the US!!!).
What appears to me to be relevant as regards your MIL, -and this is basics-, will be the manner in which you treat (her daughter and) the car! You seem to be doing all right on the car (and the rest isn't my business). I think your MIL should be very pleased to see this car revived (unless she hated it in the first place!).
I would (but this is a personal opinion) recommend you NOT to change the color. Keep it original! She keeps better value that way.
I guess this board and other Porsche sources will in the meanwhile have set you on the right road as regards the issues to be addressed... and all in all, I think you've got yourself a damn nice time warp car, yesyourtarga!!!

[notmytarga]

This is the car that Matt Chamblin remembers. Red Bluff had only a few back then.

I considered renegotiating the price when my MIL recently got a tradein of $4500 for her 1996 Range Rover which was $55K new - the blue book is only a few K higher, but she couldn't get the air conditioning and low range 4WD working well for them. Otherwise the car was immaculate.

BTW she moved to a German - - BMW X5