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3.0 to 3.2ss with pics and Dyno sheets before and after

Hi everyone.

Here is a little tale about my 3.0 to 3.2ss conversion in my '76 Carrera3.o street car. With dyno runs for each. As we all know it's empirically impossible to compare 2 different dynos a year apart with exact precision but this is not soley just about that.

Here is the car-


Over the past 18 months I have been in quite an engine adventure There have been a lot of ups and down along the way but the end result after all of this hard work and learning/character building experience is a very strong 3.2ss that I built myself. Yesterday I got to the dyno to dial in the carbs and got to see some numbers that really made me happy. 253.05hp and 226.44tq. All values are RWHP/TQ. Details later in this post.

I always meant to start a thread about my build and progress but to be very honest, I wasn't sure I really knew enough along the way and didn't want to steer anyone in the wrong direction as I was learning myself. Hopefully this will help some folks in some way because I am a product of others helping me here.

Round 1- Life as a 3.0L

After a few trial and error attempts my 3.0L was all together with the following build:

DC40 Cams
9:5:1 JE's- 95mm
46mm PMOs
Single plugged, Stock SC Dizzy--93 pump gas.
MSD Streetfire ign
NGK BPR6ES plugs gapped to 35
Built 3.2 heads opened to 40mm, valve job and upgraded springs got all this from Jack Lewis- more on his incredible involvement later...
SSIs
2/2 M&K

3.0L engine--

DYNO 3.0L- I wasn't able Dyno to tune my jetting on the carbs with Jack but I have a friend in town who has a dyno at his shop and did get the chance to get on it just to see how the numbers looked. didn't even run AFM. It was more just fun recon than anything else. Free too.

Got some good healthy numbers- 222.4HP & about the same on TQ. Can't really say much about the dyno and him as an operator. Again, it was more just a fun run than a scientific investigation. Regardless of the overall numbers, it was interesting to me to see how close the hp & tq numbers were and even more to see where in the RPM range both peaked. This becomes a bigger deal when we get to the 3.2ss sheets.



3.0L Dyno Sheet-



Sadly, I lost a rod bearing about a month later at the track and that motor was done. I didn't actually build that one and the local expert who helped me turned out to not be an expert. I had realized that already and brought Jack into the mix prior to the dyno. He did the top end, dialed things in, and even told me we should take a look at the bottom too. I said no due to cost and thinking that half of the engine was hard to mess up. He was right, I was wrong and he was kind enough not to rub it in my face when I called him from the track after it went kablamo.

So, I started over again and this time decided to just go the 3.2ss route and had help of a new engine builder.-




Round 2- 3.2ss is born


At this point the funds were low, wife was all over me, and had a 13 month old son. I just couldn't afford to hand it all over to Jack and I knew I could do this myself if I took my time and did good research along the way. Jack still helped me any time I needed it in terms of advice, direction, and even lending the occasional tool.

Here is the final 3.2ss build-
Everything is the same as was on the 3.0l with the following exceptions-
1. Ditched the SSis for Knight racing 1.75 headers and a custom Magnaflow muffler.
2. Changed from 46/38 PMO manifolds to 46/40
3. Changed to BPR5ES gapped to 45 plugs from the 6s@35 that were in the 3.0
4. Changed Main Jets from 155 to 170 (at the dyno)
5. 98mm 9:5:1 JEs & EBS 98mm Barrels
6. ARP Rod bolts
Aside from that the rest was the same as the 3.0L version. Still 93 pump gas too.

Pic of the exhaust- ***side note-- that license plate is the one the DMV randomly gave me. The first 3 letters are PBB. How I randomly got 9113 for a Carrera3 is just an awesome mystery.


DYNO DAY Feb 1, 2014- This time I went to specifically get this motor dialed in and the jets sorted out. Jack Lewis was there with me for all of that. The Dyno was a Dynojet at Balanced Performance and the operator was Ed Snef. Not the same dyno as the 3.0 runs. For those who don't know who he is, Ed is quite the tuning master in WC, Grand-Am, Rolex, etc... he is the original tuning brain behind some of the fastest pro-race teams over the past 15 years or so. I first worked with him in 2001 with my ITS E36 and won a lot of races after that. The guy knows his stuff and this is not your average dyno operator to say the least.

Made a number of runs, with the AFM of course, and made a Main Jet change to 170 from 155. Instantly picked up 31hp and 13tq. Granted we only went to 6k before changing the jetting and 7k after. Apparently jetting is pretty important. LOL. When it was all said and done we finished with 253.05hp 226.44tq.

We never went past 7k and this thing just pulled all the way to that point. Came on hard between 3k-3.5K. One reason I stopped at 7k for now is because the rpms shoot up so fast that if I am thinking 7k is the limit then I won't push to much past it. Despite my best efforts I still blow past that 7k on the street constantly.

3.2 Dyno Sheet-



Based on the two dyno comparisons from the 3.0 to the 3.2ss I gained roughly 32hp and about 3tq. All at the wheels of course. Granted, I personally don't entirely trust the 3.0l numbers but I'm sure they are close. But it is WHERE and HOW that power is applied in the RPM range that is most impressive and to me.

This project has been such a part of me for so many years that this success has a special feel to it that is hard to explain. Validation comes to mind. Content might be the word. To me with this car, content=happy.

Time to go drive. It's 61degrees here in Atlanta. 4 days ago I had to walk 3 miles home in 16 degree weather after abandoning my car in the ice/snow. Gotta love The South!

Hope you guys enjoyed it and thanks for reading.
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Robbie
1976 Carrera3.0
1978 928 5spd
Old 02-02-2014, 02:04 PM
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Nice build thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:26 PM
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great stuff!!

too bad we don't get this officially approved for at the car control (TÜV) in Germany :-(

by cuiriosity: how much fuel does it "dring" (l/km)
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:26 PM
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thanks guys. about the fuel mileage... prior to yesterday dyno changes I was getting 7.5mpg. Horrible. Car was on 1/2 tank after the dyno and I reset the trip. Don't have a solid number yet but I've gone 88 miles so far and am almost to 1/4 tank so there has been a big improvement, just can't say exact yet. I'll post that once I get some more miles on it and another fill up.
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1976 Carrera3.0
1978 928 5spd
Old 02-02-2014, 03:04 PM
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Nice numbers...congrats!
Old 02-02-2014, 03:10 PM
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Great job, I have a similar engine but haven't dynoed it yet. I think I will try out 170jets!

I am now trying out the MSD digital.
Old 02-02-2014, 03:18 PM
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...and my blue mistress
 
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thanks again guys. Shane you have actually given me a few tips through all this too so thanks again.

Verrry curious about the digi MSD... that came up with the guys at the dyno. What do you think about it so far?

On the jets... I'm not sure if Richard sends all the 46s out with the same mains or not. I didn't specify and got 155s. We had some 170s on hand but after the jump in numbers we saw with them, we really wanted to try the 75s too. Just didn't have any that day. So get a few sizes along with those 170s when you try this.
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1976 Carrera3.0
1978 928 5spd
Old 02-02-2014, 04:38 PM
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Robbie,
Looks great!! Headers are like jewelry ;-).

Btw - I went with dual digital MSDs.

Todd
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:52 PM
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Thanks Todd- BTW, he is the one who told me about those Headers of Jewelry.

OK, I haven't read into this yet so what's the big reason to do this with our 3 almost equal engines.

You guys both went that way. What coil are you using with it?

I just have a MSD Street-fire which turns out is lower down the line from the regular red ones. I only realized this a week ago. Bought it long before even thinking about going in the direction I went with this motor.
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1976 Carrera3.0
1978 928 5spd
Old 02-02-2014, 05:02 PM
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never-mind on the MSD. I looked it up. WOW. so which one did you guys get? That programmable one looks interesting.
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1976 Carrera3.0
1978 928 5spd
Old 02-02-2014, 05:10 PM
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The blaster coil gives you some mounting options. I stuck both of mine where the CDI box was. The boxes are in the back seat area.

I think with carbs and a dizzy there aren't any benefits to the AL2 programmable. If you needed to have some control over your advance/retard it would help.

Todd
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:41 PM
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Looks great. That engine is like artwork.

Email sent!
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Last edited by willcall; 02-02-2014 at 06:44 PM..
Old 02-02-2014, 06:22 PM
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Your build turned out great, that motor is a beast! Yes, I have 155's that came as recommended initially.

Do you know about how many turns out you ended up wit the 170's for the idle? My guess is you are probably about 1.5 turns out.

I have the MSD 6AL-2. I haven't locked out the springs on the distributer yet so I have it set a 0. It's pretty simple to program the curve. The distributor is set at full advance and the MSD pulls out advance. It makes my head hurt a bit thinking about it. So I will set the distributer 28 degrees ( at the crank). This makes it super easy for tuning, you just need a windows computer with a serial port, or a USB converter.

Last edited by snbush67; 02-02-2014 at 06:41 PM..
Old 02-02-2014, 06:25 PM
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Arrow MSD 6AL-2 Install

Here is my install, I eliminated the fuse relays, etc. and just added a hot and ground lead for my timing light. I'll probably add a fuel cut off and a momentary switch to rotate the motor.

Old 02-02-2014, 06:30 PM
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yeah I like that. looks clean. I have done exactly the same but keep kicking myself for not do the timing light lead.

I like that fan shroud. Is there a texture on there or is that just the pic?

guy I was with this weekend had a push button starter in the engine bay of his rally car 911s.

And my dog usually eats the lizards here before they can get in my engine bay. :-)
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1976 Carrera3.0
1978 928 5spd
Old 02-02-2014, 06:41 PM
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Just splice off of your hot wire to the MSD for the lead, I used some speaker terminals from radio shack, they work good because the covers screw off.

I used wrinkle black on the shroud, fan housing, and valve covers it is a strong finish and is easy to touch up. Dang lizards are everywhere here.
Old 02-02-2014, 07:06 PM
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Congrats on your build Mazing3. My build is very simular to yours but does not get near the hp. (226 RWHP on a Mustang dyno)(95mm JE's 9.5/1 ,ARP,Mahle jugs, 46 PMO, 39mm intakes,DC 40 cams recurved dist.,SSI, M&K 2/2, MSD 6AL digital) I'm very interested in your carb set up. My carbs came set up for my build from PMO with 145 mains! I recently switched to 155 and saw a marked improvement. If you would'nt mind, what are all the numbers on you carb setup? I know that my SSI's and M&K 2/2 are a little restrictive for a 3.2SS but certainly not 27hp worth.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targa Time View Post
Congrats on your build Mazing3. My build is very simular to yours but does not get near the hp. (226 RWHP on a Mustang dyno)(95mm JE's 9.5/1 ,ARP,Mahle jugs, 46 PMO, 39mm intakes,DC 40 cams recurved dist.,SSI, M&K 2/2, MSD 6AL digital) I'm very interested in your carb set up. My carbs came set up for my build from PMO with 145 mains! I recently switched to 155 and saw a marked improvement. If you would'nt mind, what are all the numbers on you carb setup? I know that my SSI's and M&K 2/2 are a little restrictive for a 3.2SS but certainly not 27hp worth.

Yes, please post or pm us the specs on your carb set up.
I'm interested too.
Thank you!
Old 02-02-2014, 08:20 PM
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Here is the current spec of my carbs-

170 Mains
185 Airs
60/130 idles
46/40 Manifolds

All we changed was the mains but it made such a huge difference that I think there is more to do in there for more gains. And the only reason we stopped on 170 was because it's all we had. My engine seemed to richen up a little in the higher RPMS leading us to 175s or 180s could be even better.

Oh, and SSI's with M&K 2/2 vs. Real headers and the Magnaflow is not even a contest- and it DOES matter. I took that setup off to add my headers.

Remember that all this stuff works in symphony and with each other and every motor has it's own personality with all that working together. Best thing you can do is order up a variety of jets and combos and try them on the dyno.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:14 AM
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Great post, I'm getting motivated.
Targa Time your dyno is a mustang dyno while OP was on a dyno jet so in most intances over the years there is a 10% difference between the both. Also keep in mind different dyno, different operator, different correction factor and etc.
Great job guys now who lives close to NJ who can help me with this
Old 02-03-2014, 11:44 AM
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