new exhaust system?

[ParkerFE]

Fabspeed,B&B, SIS or RarlyL8.. I'm thinking of upgrading the the exhaust system on my 1988 911, 3.2 cab....any suggestions?

[beren]

I have hte Fabspeed cat - love it. Great sound - integrates perfectly. I have an '88 911 Targa.

[ParkerFE]

I just got an e-mail from Brian with a couple of photos of his headers w/heat and they look great. Has anyone got the RarlyL8 headers w/heat on their 3.2? If so, tell me the good and bad.

[nineball]

look in the classifieds for a set of ssi. the originals are genrally considered the best available.

[timmy2]

SSI's on a 3.2? Why bother?
I'm sure he wants it to breath better, not restrict it...

[ParkerFE]

I decided to go with the RarlyL8 headers w/heat and M&K sport muffle with rally style twin outlets. I hope to get it delivered sometime next week. I will report back once I get it installed.

[jmh61]

I put the RarlyL8 headers and heat exchangers on my 86 with a Porsche sport muffler.

The Good
1 5/8" headers are the right size for the 3.2
The headers are very well made. Beautiful fabrication.
The are very light, much lighter than stock.
They are mid length headers, good at higher rpms, ie the track

Not So good.
Heat exchangers did not work well for me without the footwell blowers. I had originally planned to remove the footwell blowers but ended up leaving them in and jumping the relay to get them to work well.
Heat exchangers take a while to warm up, but once they warm up they can keep the cabin toasty with the footwell blowers.
Heat exchanger design and fabrication is not on the same level as the headers. Where the flexible hose hits the back of the heat exchanger, the hose rubs against the slip fit portion of the collector. It wore completely through the hose. I replaced the hose and wrapped the rubbing area with foil muffler tape. The tape has been on about a month, so far so good. I also taped all the seams on the heat exchangers with foil backed muffler tape. This really improved the heating ability of the assembly.
Initial installation was frustrating. The heat exchangers distort the geometry of the headers. When I got mine, the HEs were square but the three primary flanges were not aligned. The slip fit at the collector allowed them to move. No problem, I bolted them onto the heads, the flanges aligned and the HEs distorted a little bit. I bolted both sides on and then tried to put the muffler on. No joy, muffler didn't line up at all. Losened the nuts at the heads to get about a 1/4" play. Bolted the muffler to the headers snug tight. Tighted the nuts up at the heads and retightened the muffler. Joy. Hopefully this will help with your install.

I've had the headers on since last August. When I was trying to decide which exhaust to do I looked at the same systems you mentioned in your original post. Even with the points above, If I had to do it again I would buy the RarlyL8s. The SSIs are too small. The Fabspeeds are 1 3/4", too big. The BBs have muffler and install issues. The 993 HEs have "interesting" exhaust flow paths at the muffler inlet, require a custom muffler, flipped flanges and I couldn't find a good example of HE inlet hose routing.

I see you live in GA. I'm in Norcross, just north of ATL. If I can help you with anything send me a PM.

[TweetyBird]

For sure

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by timmy2

SSI's on a 3.2? Why bother?
I'm sure he wants it to breath better, not restrict it...

SSI's don't restrict the 3.2. I would say that maybe they don't allow full potential of flow on a 3.2, but not restrict. The comments I've read are that there is no top end hp benefit over stock with a bypass. Although, mid range torque is better, which is where my car lives most of the time.

My personal experience is that I "feel" a difference, but it is feel, not substantiated on the dyno yet. I installed SSI's purely for the sound and better heat, which was a success on both accounts.

[ParkerFE]

Originally Posted by jmh61

I put the RarlyL8 headers and heat exchangers on my 86 with a Porsche sport muffler.

The Good
1 5/8" headers are the right size for the 3.2
The headers are very well made. Beautiful fabrication.
The are very light, much lighter than stock.
They are mid length headers, good at higher rpms, ie the track

Not So good.
Heat exchangers did not work well for me without the footwell blowers. I had originally planned to remove the footwell blowers but ended up leaving them in and jumping the relay to get them to work well.
Heat exchangers take a while to warm up, but once they warm up they can keep the cabin toasty with the footwell blowers.
Heat exchanger design and fabrication is not on the same level as the headers. Where the flexible hose hits the back of the heat exchanger, the hose rubs against the slip fit portion of the collector. It wore completely through the hose. I replaced the hose and wrapped the rubbing area with foil muffler tape. The tape has been on about a month, so far so good. I also taped all the seams on the heat exchangers with foil backed muffler tape. This really improved the heating ability of the assembly.
Initial installation was frustrating. The heat exchangers distort the geometry of the headers. When I got mine, the HEs were square but the three primary flanges were not aligned. The slip fit at the collector allowed them to move. No problem, I bolted them onto the heads, the flanges aligned and the HEs distorted a little bit. I bolted both sides on and then tried to put the muffler on. No joy, muffler didn't line up at all. Losened the nuts at the heads to get about a 1/4" play. Bolted the muffler to the headers snug tight. Tighted the nuts up at the heads and retightened the muffler. Joy. Hopefully this will help with your install.

I've had the headers on since last August. When I was trying to decide which exhaust to do I looked at the same systems you mentioned in your original post. Even with the points above, If I had to do it again I would buy the RarlyL8s. The SSIs are too small. The Fabspeeds are 1 3/4", too big. The BBs have muffler and install issues. The 993 HEs have "interesting" exhaust flow paths at the muffler inlet, require a custom muffler, flipped flanges and I couldn't find a good example of HE inlet hose routing.

I see you live in GA. I'm in Norcross, just north of ATL. If I can help you with anything send me a PM.

I would love to hear your car. While I live in Cumming, my office is at 4851 Jimmy Carter Blvd. in Norcross, East of I-85, (770-564-2600). My car has booster fans, so I'm hopeful that it will give me enough heat as needed. My car is already at Franz Blam Racing in Norcross for some other work, so I am just having them shipped to him for installation.

[michael lang]

maybe Brian can comment on John's observations regarding fit and operation of heat exchangers.

[porsche0nut]

Originally Posted by jmh61

I put the RarlyL8 headers and heat exchangers on my 86 with a Porsche sport muffler.

The Good
1 5/8" headers are the right size for the 3.2
The headers are very well made. Beautiful fabrication.
The are very light, much lighter than stock.
They are mid length headers, good at higher rpms, ie the track

Not So good.
Heat exchangers did not work well for me without the footwell blowers. I had originally planned to remove the footwell blowers but ended up leaving them in and jumping the relay to get them to work well.
Heat exchangers take a while to warm up, but once they warm up they can keep the cabin toasty with the footwell blowers.
Heat exchanger design and fabrication is not on the same level as the headers. Where the flexible hose hits the back of the heat exchanger, the hose rubs against the slip fit portion of the collector. It wore completely through the hose. I replaced the hose and wrapped the rubbing area with foil muffler tape. The tape has been on about a month, so far so good. I also taped all the seams on the heat exchangers with foil backed muffler tape. This really improved the heating ability of the assembly.
Initial installation was frustrating. The heat exchangers distort the geometry of the headers. When I got mine, the HEs were square but the three primary flanges were not aligned. The slip fit at the collector allowed them to move. No problem, I bolted them onto the heads, the flanges aligned and the HEs distorted a little bit. I bolted both sides on and then tried to put the muffler on. No joy, muffler didn't line up at all. Losened the nuts at the heads to get about a 1/4" play. Bolted the muffler to the headers snug tight. Tighted the nuts up at the heads and retightened the muffler. Joy. Hopefully this will help with your install.

I've had the headers on since last August. When I was trying to decide which exhaust to do I looked at the same systems you mentioned in your original post. Even with the points above, If I had to do it again I would buy the RarlyL8s. The SSIs are too small. The Fabspeeds are 1 3/4", too big. The BBs have muffler and install issues. The 993 HEs have "interesting" exhaust flow paths at the muffler inlet, require a custom muffler, flipped flanges and I couldn't find a good example of HE inlet hose routing.

I see you live in GA. I'm in Norcross, just north of ATL. If I can help you with anything send me a PM.

This is fantastic info. What are your driving impressions? Power/sound.... do you have a Steve Wong chip installed to compliment the exhaust upgrade?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by jmh61

They are mid length headers, good at higher rpms, ie the track.

I had no idea that the length was such a factor.

Read up on it here (aircraft not cars).

Header Basics - How Headers Contribute to Horsepower - Car Craft Magazine

Graph A illustrates how merely changing pipe diameter affects an engine's output. Note that the smallest diameter creates good midrange torque yet falls off at the top, while the larger primary header pipes add more high-rpm power at the expense of low-speed torque.

Primary pipe length can also skew an engine's power curve based on length changes. Primary-pipe diameter establishes the peak torque point, so changing the pipe length will rock the output curve by pivoting it around that peak torque point. Graph B shows how longer tubes tend to increase power below peak torque while hurting power above peak torque. Shorter tubes tend to affect the engine in exactly the opposite way, hurting midrange torque in favor of increasing top-end power.

Read more: Header Basics - How Headers Contribute to Horsepower - Car Craft Magazine

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Scooter

SSI's don't restrict the 3.2. ...

I think that is correct for a stock or mildly tuned motor. It depends on the cam (like everything else in life).

For a wildly high rpm motor then the tubes will likely be too small.

Two things will convince me otherwise:

1. statistically valid samples comparing engine (not road, aka toad) dyno results
2. comments from experts who have done lots of engine dyno runs

Be aware that John Daniels sold SSi and it is now owned by Dansk - IIRC it is Dansk.

Another smart move is to buy whatever an experienced street and race engine builder tells you to buy - you could contact Steve Weiner for example.

No matter what:
1. used SSIs will be a lot cheaper than Brian's new products
2. if money is no object then just buy Brian's product - you will then be set to go wherever you want with the motor - cams, 3.4L expansion, whatever


There are numerous threads on this topic here, some of them containing actual information. If you want a review of your sophomore physics class, then search on superposition and read comments from Bill V.

[RarlyL8]

Header design is application specific as indicated in the conversation in this thread. Our tuned Carrera headers were designed for use on mildly modified 3.2L engines that see street/track double duty. The primary pipe ID matches the stock exhaust port size to retain midrange while shorter pipe length gives a bump at the top end. The primary tubes are true equal length with merge collectors.







Heat exchangers on any aftrermarket header system will not perform as well as OEM, there simply is not enough real estate. HVAC blowers are required for max performance. SSI is the exception because they were designed to be OEM replacements. Our exchangers bolt on for ease of installation and so they can be removed to clean, if not needed, or to replace if damaged. They do not seal to the pipes as this would result in cracking as the pipes go through heat and cool cycles.

[ParkerFE]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Header design is application specific as indicated in the conversation in this thread. Our tuned Carrera headers were designed for use on mildly modified 3.2L engines that see street/track double duty. The primary pipe ID matches the stock exhaust port size to retain midrange while shorter pipe length gives a bump at the top end. The primary tubes are true equal length with merge collectors.







Heat exchangers on any aftrermarket header system will not perform as well as OEM, there simply is not enough real estate. HVAC blowers are required for max performance. SSI is the exception because they were designed to be OEM replacements. Our exchangers bolt on for ease of installation and so they can be removed to clean, if not needed, or to replace if damaged. They do not seal to the pipes as this would result in cracking as the pipes go through heat and cool cycles.

Brian, I hope that those are my headers that you are getting ready to box up and ship to me?

[RWebb]

Brian - you might want to clarify that "Heat exchangers on any aftermarket header system will not perform as well as OEM" refers to heating performance. Someone might read that as engine performance...

[michael lang]

So my question would be, how effective is the heat with those heater boxes?

[ParkerFE]

I got an e-mail from Brian this morning with a FedEx tracking number...so my headers and muffler are on the way with expected delivery tomorrow...I can't wait!

[ParkerFE]

The RarelyL8 headers, M&K muffler, SW chip and roll bar are now installed. I stopped by Franz Blam Racing this morning to take a look... everything looks great! Franz did say that Brian should make the header box outlets a little longer as he had to fabricate extensions so the connecting hoses don't touch the headers and burn. I plan to pick up my car tomorrow morning.