Aluminum Roll Bar?

[NYNick]

My mechanic told me he installed a bolt in Aluminum Roll Bar that had some type of adjustability about 8-10 years ago but can't remember the brand.

I found an aluminum one by Wiechers, but it doesn't seems adjustable. I'm not really sure which part adjusted, but I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this brand.

Thanks

Nick

[Mo_Gearhead]

Aluminum has high tensile strength, but once you over-stress it, it breaks, cracks or tears. There is a reason you never see race cars with aluminum cages or roll bars.

You need to rethink this. It's your life on the line my friend.

[RichardNew]

Porsche used them for years in their race cars. Mostly during the 70's. They're not considered safe and I don't even think the vintage folks use them. The company that made them is out of business. I think.

Richard Newton
Silly Car Tech Stuff

[Joe Bob]

Not a good idea......

[kach22i]

Sounds like a bad idea, I mean they don't put aluminum bumpers on cars do they?


Oh wait, my 35 year old Porsche 911 has aluminum bumpers both front and back.

I think the topic is worth a little more research before dismissing.

Aluminum Roll Bars
http://www.********fm.com/vehicle-details/7747f71fa8924fa38c9e1776ea7e0b7b/2005+audi+tt+3.2+quattro+250hp+convertible+2-door+convertible.html



2001 Audi TT Roadster
http://www.audiworld.com/news/00/01roadster/roadster.shtml

The TT Roadster was designed concurrently with the Coupe version. This is an important fact because it means that the open-top version was not just an afterthought or a butchered up version of the Coupe. It also means that the car has been engineered with safety and functionality in mind. The rollbars, for instance, were never designed to be hidden or minimized as in some open-top cars. As with the rest of the aluminum-accented interior, the rollbars are a distinct design element. A thick aluminum crossbeam runs the width of the car and the rollbars to attach to this structural member. To increase rigidity, the door sills are approximately 30% thicker than in the average car; even without the top the TT Roadster feels solid during high speed maneuvers. Audi also used steel A-pillar inserts to ensure the integrity of the windshield area in the event of impact or rollover. As a matter of fact, the TT Roadster has the same level of rollover intrusion protection as the Coupe -- an amazing fact when you stop and think about it.

Next thing you know they will be building most of the car out of aluminum.

2015 Audi TT | car review @ Top Speed

The TT and TTS are built with ASF® construction, a high-strength aluminum frame structure into which the panels are integrated so that they also perform a load-bearing function. The aluminum body is characterized by exceptional stiffness and substantially lower weight for better performance, efficiency and handling.

I do think the grade of aluminum will be even more important than the grade of steel used, just more work ahead to find out what will be best.

[kach22i]

Here is a picture of the aforementioned aluminum crossbar.

01 02 03 04 05 06 Audi TT Quattro Aluminum Rollbar Roll Bar Bars Rear Left Right | eBay


More photo details in link.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "Oh wait, my 35 year old Porsche 911 has aluminum bumpers both front and back."
_______________________

Yes, bumping into things is very similar to putting a vehicle on its roof - or rolling it several times in a wreck.

Aren't you the guy who attached casters with perforated-metal straps to his front pan?

Best stick to designing homes in Detroit.

[NYNick]

Safety is clearly the issue here I gather. Good to know.
My car is silver, and I'm looking to match it without painting if possible.
Do they do stainless?
Thanks for the replies.
Nick

[Mo_Gearhead]

If anyone thinks that little LOOP of aluminum in that Audi will give you any protection in a roll-over ...you need to put down the crack pipe and seek some help.

*But it's sooooo pretty!

[Rob T.]

I bet you will find what you need here

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Mo_Gearhead

Yes, bumping into things is very similar to putting a vehicle on its roof - or rolling it several times in a wreck.

Sarcasm?

The only real difference is that most of the forces in the bumper's case are horizontally derived, whereas the roll-bar the forces are mostly vertical.

Each system has significant off-center diagonal forces, but diagonal vectors of force are just combinations of the two directions.

Look, this could all be a dead end venture. Either you are curious about the subject and want to learn more, or you are content with a life of monkey see, monkey do.

Are you a curious monkey or not?

[silver911rdb]

I believe the company that used to make the aluminum roll cages was Matter. I don't think they're in business any more.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "Are you a curious monkey or not?"
________________

Sorry, all the monkeys have died - in vehicles that flipped and rolled while using aluminum roll bars.

But I am curious about the caster project? No follow-up, real-world data to report yet?
No color chart/graph on - significant off-center diagonal forces as applied to sheet metal deflection when encountering speed bumps or low curbs?

[NYNick]

Thanks Silver911rdb!
Do you go to Carburators and Coffee in Darien ever?

[kach22i]

Maybe Mo_Gearhead can tell Porsche they also made a mistake with the Carrera Gt, as they didn't use "all steel" roll over protection.


Carbon fiber race car technology hits the streets : CompositesWorld

Setting the evolutionary pace is the car's unique "rolling chassis" design. The Carrera GT represents the first-ever use of a carbon fiber monocoque chassis in a production automobile, a structure that incorporates the windshield frame and the A and B pillar rollover structure.

They did use a little steel, perhaps to make it bend? Then perhaps aluminum could also be enhanced (laminated) in a similar manner?

Carrera GT
http://press.porsche.com/archive/products/press_kits/press_kits_2006/pdf/carrera_gt/carrera_gt_new_levels_2006.pdf

On the Carrera GT, CFP is used for the chassis, which includes the windshield frame (which is
reinforced by a steel core) and supplemental safety bar system, engine/transmission support
frame, doors, hoods, fenders, underfloor tray and even in many interior components.
CFP is constructed from bonded layers of materials, including carbon fiber tissue, resin and aluminum
or plastic honeycomb material that can be nearly an inch in thickness. Aluminum inserts are laminated
at specific points so other components can be attached to the load-bearing monocoque structure

Point is, if you were to take the best features of each material and combine them you might end up with a very light and expensive rollbar, might be worth doing if that's your muse in life.

I will not argue that steel is not the cheapest, and most widely acceptable roll bar material, as clearly it is. However if titanium of some other exotic combination of materials afforded an advantage, and cost was no object, then what the heck man technology marches on.

This is not the "most affordable material" roll bar thread is it?

Then lets discuss the past and present uses of aluminum without conducting an experiment into de-evolution and starting a poo tossing monkey fight.

Good article on the Carrera Gt's material's usage...............for the intellectually curious.
http://cars-maniac.weebly.com/porsche-carrera-gt.html


Debunking Misinformation Surrounding the Paul Walker Porsche Carrera GT Crash
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/debunking-misinformation-surrounding-the-paul-walker-po-1475054822

[kach22i]

More info:

http://www.porsche.com/middle-east/_lebanon_/models/911/911-targa-4s/safety/roll-over-protection/

Roll-over protection
The 911 Targa 4 models have exemplary torsional rigidity and flexural strength. Increased protection is provided by the steel roll-over protection system located under the aluminium panel of the Targa roll bar.

Also see the Porsche 918.

[wildcat077]

Rich is correct,the original 964 Cup cars in Europe were all equipped with Matter aluminum rollbars/cages ... friend of mine in Montreal has one for sale,still has the certification stickers and OEM padding on it !

Cheers
Phil

[HorstP]

Aluminum roll bars are available from Heigo (in Germany). This and the steel version (which I have) have adjustable ends on the various pieces to align it perfectly within the car.

[Mo_Gearhead]

I guess we could start another thread if we want to discuss monocoque-type construction (which has been going on for decades in racing) and now some production cars. But that is taking the design of the ENTIRE car into consideration. That entails some heavy number crunching for sure regarding; strength, weight, cost, etc.

The original poster asked about aluminum, BOLT-IN roll bars and I gave my opinion. If it's for your street car and you want to build one out of elbow macaroni and spaghetti, welded together with hot droplets of water - I encourage you to go for it!

Just don't try to take it to the track and pass tech.

[silver911rdb]

NYNICK, I never heard of Caffeine and Carburetors. I checked out the website. The F1 sound clip is worth the visit alone...never mind all the cool pictures. I'll definitely check it out.

As far as the matter cage is concerned. A friend of mine restored a 1984 911 SCRS back in the late 80's and replaced the used matter cage with a new one. From what I remember it was bolted together.