MS3X sync loss problems

[billjam]

Got an EGO sensor working properly and had a great session with VEAL today.
Really interesting the way that works.
Initially, the AFR readings were continually flicking around wildy, but became noticeably smoother as the tune developed. Still too rich and too lean in some areas, but getting there.
Got a fair amount of the VE map retuned and just spent some time tonight smoothing it out. Looking forward to trying it on the road again tomorrow.

I am still running in wasted COP mode and managed to blow a fuse on one of the coil circuits with a short burst to 7000rpm. Toyota run six of these coils through a 15amp fuse, which is what I used, but I guess wasted spark and 7K isn't how the average Highlander is used.

Now that I have it running reasonably well, I might try going back to sequential ignition and injection, however, I'm still not sure which settings need to be "ITB" and which should be "Alpha N" in General Settings (in post 158).

[Tippy]

Manually change those areas that are rich in lean by the % your AFR's are off. Run VEAL again. If VEAL has to make big changes, it'll take a long time. Manual tuning is still kind of required. The closer you get it manual, the better VEAL will nail it in shorter time.

I don't know for sure, but I'd think you want everything in ITB mode.

[Tippy]

Bill, in those rich/lean areas, highlight as many cells as needed, and click on the "*" sign at the top right of the VE table. You can multiply say .8 or .9 for the rich areas and 1.1 or 1.2 for the lean.

You can do any two-digit past the decimal too like 1.05 if it's real close.

[Tippy]

Any progress?

[billjam]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Any progress?

Yes and no.
I have had a few sessions on the road with VEAL doing its thing (very interesting!) and driveability has improved significantly.
I have yet to address exactly which settings need to be "ITB" as there are several places where this option is available and some are still set to "Alpha-N". My intention is to raise this subject on the MS forum and see what comes out of that discussion. Might try that tonight.

The IACV isn't activated yet as I just haven't had time to figure out how to do it, so cold idle is a bit of a struggle at present.

Cold starting is also not as crisp as I want it to be, but again, no time to play.

Unfortunately, I only get to play with the car on the weekends, and then only a few hours here and there depending upon family commitments, hence the slow progress. Also, don't forget that it's winter down here. It is dark when I go to work and dark when I come home (knackered!), so not much happens during the week. But thanks for staying with me!

[Lapkritis]

Alpha-n is a blend of throttle position and manifold pressure for the maps. You don't have a turbo so tps/itb would be my recommended setting for all maps.

[preston_brown]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Alpha-n is a blend of throttle position and manifold pressure for the maps. You don't have a turbo so tps/itb would be my recommended setting for all maps.

I thought Alpha-N was ONLY throttle position, and ITB blended this with MAP depending on load and/or throttle position?

[LJ851]

Originally Posted by preston_brown

I thought Alpha-N was ONLY throttle position, and ITB blended this with MAP depending on load and/or throttle position?

You are correct, Alpha-N is throttle position and RPM only (plus the adjusting inputs like engine temp, etc). Some blend Alpha-N with MAP to improve drivability.

[Tippy]

Quote de Tippy

Any progress?

Yes and no.

I have had a few sessions on the road with VEAL doing its thing (very interesting!) and driveability has improved significantly.

I have yet to address exactly which settings need to be "ITB" as there are several places where this option is available and some are still set to "Alpha-N". My intention is to raise this subject on the MS forum and see what comes out of that discussion. Might try that tonight.



The IACV isn't activated yet as I just haven't had time to figure out how to do it, so cold idle is a bit of a struggle at present.



Cold starting is also not as crisp as I want it to be, but again, no time to play.



Unfortunately, I only get to play with the car on the weekends, and then only a few hours here and there depending upon family commitments, hence the slow progress. Also, don't forget that it's winter down here. It is dark when I go to work and dark when I come home (knackered!), so not much happens during the week. But thanks for staying with me!

Cold starting is IMO, the hardest thing to get down.

You have priming PW, cranking PW, ASE %, ASE taper, and warmup enrichment all based on VE idle bins.

That's a lot of tweaking to find the sweet spot.

I got my warmup curve from a stock Carrera 3.2, and simply changed all the other settings until it starts cold.

Oh, and acceleration enrichment % when cold. That helped a lot for me when trying to takeoff seconds after a dead, cold light off.

[billjam]

Managed to get a few hours on the car today and tried a few different settings.
All algorithms are now set to ITB. It still runs and starts!

Did a long drive with VEAL running and cleaned up quite a bit of the fuel map.
VEAL leaned off the fuel over most of the table by quite a bit, but it now has serious exhaust popping and banging on light throttle and over-run. Sounds great, but is a bit anti-social!
Light throttle cruising is also a bit rough now with some surging. I haven't had a chance to read up on this yet, but if anyone has some tips, don't be shy.
I haven't really looked at the spark advance yet, so not sure what effect that might be having.

I activated sequential COPs and injection as well. It didn't miss a beat, so all settings related to sequential must be OK.

Next issue to tackle is getting the Jeep IACV up and running. I have queried the setup for this on the MS forum, so hopefully I'll have some hints on that soon.

[Lapkritis]

Go ahead and post a log. I'm happy to help with tuning in my spare time.

[billjam]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Go ahead and post a log. I'm happy to help with tuning in my spare time.

Thanks for the offer, what type of log would be most useful?

[cmonref]

A datalog of the running engine -- an MSL. On the main menu, Datalogging, Start Datalog, press Enter to accept the default name (with date and time), and it will record until you either shut down or select Stop from that same menu. Start the datalog with the engine off but ignition on, so that it records the data thru the start. You can start the log anytime TS is connected to the MS, whether the engine is running or not.

If you post a question on the MS forums, you should also include a log (MSL) and your tune (MSQ.) A large MSL cannot be posted because of size, so you may have to cut it down to a manageable size that includes data specific to your question.

Brian

[jpnovak]

I am happy to help tune as well. Just need a datalog and a tune file.

[billjam]

Holy crap! If you guys can make sense of this I'll be impressed!!
Click on my username and send me an email so I can reply with copies of msl and msq files for your viewing pleasure.
I should point out that it is currently running very poorly with lots of surging and exhaust popping on over-run. I had it running much more smoothly last week but after I let VEAL lean it off almost everywhere, the smoothness disappeared.

[Tippy]

Wow! Those AFR's are swinging a lot back and forth!

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by billjam

Holy crap! If you guys can make sense of this I'll be impressed!!
Click on my username and send me an email so I can reply with copies of msl and msq files for your viewing pleasure.
I should point out that it is currently running very poorly with lots of surging and exhaust popping on over-run. I had it running much more smoothly last week but after I let VEAL lean it off almost everywhere, the smoothness disappeared.

I see a lot going on there. The air to fuel is way to lean... you should see no leaner than ~15:1 when touching the throttle.

The igintion advance appears fixed.

There's going to be some basic settings to adjust and you'll be back in business. The VEAL works based upon your target AFR map. If that target AFR map isn't set up then who knows what your computer is trimming to.

If possible, please post the MSQ and logs on the MS website for download and then link back here.

[billjam]

There might be a lot going on there, but it is producing f.. all power!
I have lot's of misfiring and some amazing exhaust popping.
I have just posted the msq and a couple of logs in a thread on the MS forum here.

[Lapkritis]

Huge change noticed right away on your tune file:

Change "Ignition Settings" > "Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder"

Set top right corner "Fixed Advance" field to "Use Table". You're frozen at 10 degrees ignition advance when that is set to fixed which you don't want.

There are other changes I'm working to suggest but this is a huge, simple change that should be made right away. More to come...

[billjam]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

You're frozen at 10 degrees ignition advance ...

Duh! Pretty obvious when I look back on it. I wondered why the Ignition Advance gauge was stuck on 10* because I was expecting it to reflect varying advance during driving. Never really looked into it while I was distracted on other areas.
Great start.