Found some rust (pictures)

[D@vid]

Hi Guys,

So, I've finally started the restoration/disassembly of my '73 911T (MFI) I’ve been planning the past couple of years. When I acquired the car three years ago, I just enjoyed it for a while but I always knew that, sooner or later, I had to take a closer look at the “usual suspects”. So last weekend, I finally decided that I could no longer postpone the inevitable… wish me luck 
The first thing I did, was to remove the carpets to take a closer look at the rear seats and floor-pans. To my surprise I found this thick rubber mat glued to the entire rear compartment (rear seats/parcel shelf)



Possibly due to hardened/dried out window rubbers (the car was imported from California), rainwater must have leaked into the cabin, on to the parcel shelf and rear seats and the rubber mat must have “trapped” the water so it could wreak havoc.
This is what I found:



I had to cut the rubber into pieces to remove it, later I realized that maybe, it would’ve been nice if I had kept it in one piece so it could have been reinstalled when finished. On the other hand, the rubber was responsible for trapping water and ultimately destroying the rear seats.... What are your thoughts on this?
I would like to restore the car more or less to original specs but concourse is not the objective.

Also, when I removed the passenger seat, I found a connector on the bottom of the seat and a mystery wire on the floor-pan underneath the seat. The wire’s pretty beat up and wasn’t attached to the rear seat. What could this be? :rolleyes

[jpnovak]

This is pretty common to see rust on the rear deck and seat pans. The rubber sound deadening pad traps water at the surface. The usual source is the lower corners of the window seal letting in water.

You can find a deck and seat pan piece from a later car. Its the same stamping as your 73 up through the 80s. The way to fix is to cut and weld patches. Be aware of the stuff on the other side of the panel when welding. There are wires ,brake lines and fuel lines along the route.

[javadog]

The wire is for a seat belt warning light.

JR

[tharbert]

I think I pulled 30-40 pounds of that tar stuff from the engine bay, rear deck, and floor of my 72. The newer sound deadening stuff like Dynamat is much lighter. Good luck with the rust repair!

[GH85Carrera]

You NEEDED new window seals. Be glad the old ones are cut up and gone. That car must have smelled musty at some point. I guess it likely sat outside for a while and was not driven.

Good luck with the rust repair.

[bobolsn]

David,

I was in the same place several years ago 71 911T (rear window leak, parcel shelf and seats with holes, etc.). At the time there was no rear shelf replacement sheet metal. I believe restoration design now has all the necessary sheet metal that you will need (from the pictures). As mentioned above, you can either patch or replace, depending on how extensive it is. I also found some corrosion in the front pan from battery leakage that needed help.

Unfortunately, the best and probably the only way to do it correctly is to remove the engine and transmission. Again it depends on how extensive the rust is but you have to remove all the interior carpet, etc. for the evaluation. Also, as previously mentioned the wiring, brake/fuel lines are pretty close to the sheet metal that you will be welding.

Good Luck

Bob

[D@vid]

Ah, thanks JR, that must be it

[D@vid]

Originally Posted by bobolsn

David,

I was in the same place several years ago 71 911T (rear window leak, parcel shelf and seats with holes, etc.). At the time there was no rear shelf replacement sheet metal. I believe restoration design now has all the necessary sheet metal that you will need (from the pictures). As mentioned above, you can either patch or replace, depending on how extensive it is. I also found some corrosion in the front pan from battery leakage that needed help.

Unfortunately, the best and probably the only way to do it correctly is to remove the engine and transmission. Again it depends on how extensive the rust is but you have to remove all the interior carpet, etc. for the evaluation. Also, as previously mentioned the wiring, brake/fuel lines are pretty close to the sheet metal that you
will be welding.

Good Luck

Bob

Thanks Bob, I've already checked out Restoration Design and it seems they've got what I need. My front pan seems to be in great shape, I do however have to repair a rust hole caused by leaking AC.
I was hoping I could repair the rear seats and parcel shelf with the engine still in the car and that I only had to remove the rear window... Either way, the engine has to come out someday. Problem is lack of space in my shop. We'll see. Thanks for the advise.

[D@vid]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

This is pretty common to see rust on the rear deck and seat pans. The rubber sound deadening pad traps water at the surface. The usual source is the lower corners of the window seal letting in water.

You can find a deck and seat pan piece from a later car. Its the same stamping as your 73 up through the 80s. The way to fix is to cut and weld patches. Be aware of the stuff on the other side of the panel when welding. There are wires ,brake lines and fuel lines along the route.

Thanks jpnovak, didn't know that later models had the same stamping, also, I will be very careful with the fuel lines etc.

[RichardNew]

This is almost a duplicate of my situation. You can see my pictures here. This is not a small job. It also takes a lot of skill to do it correctly. I've got a really good shop (Manfreds Automotive Specialties) in Naples doing my work. It's just about done at this point.



I'm replacing the seals on the rear 1/4 windows as well. There's a good chance the water got in that way as well. Hey - it's only $325 for those seals. In for a dime In for a dollar.

Richard Newton

[RichardNew]

When you're done it will look like this.



Then you cover all of the work with carpeting and no one will ever know how much work and money went into this project. Ok, I guess that's the point.

Richard Newton

[D@vid]

Richard, that's indeed allmost the same damage. Looking great after repair now I see l never even considered the fact that simply washing your car over a 40 year period could couse this kind of damage

[D@vid]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

You NEEDED new window seals. Be glad the old ones are cut up and gone. That car must have smelled musty at some point. I guess it likely sat outside for a while and was not driven.

Good luck with the rust repair.

Glen, not to worry, I'm not re-using the window rubber I was refering to the rubber sound deadening material. That too wil not be re-used.

[manbridge 74]

A similar thread made me remove my rear interior due to worry/lack of sleep. Thankfully, no rust...

[RichardNew]

Replace your window seals while your car is still intact. You now have visual proof of what happens when the rubber goes bad.

Richard

[jakz]

good luck with the Project! i just removed that myself yesterday its amazing how much the black mat weights! i think its better to use some dynamat or something similar. im using closed cell foam instead of the heavy mat as an undercarpet and thats all i hope its not too noisy.

[djwhite]

What's ballpark price for this repair at a reputable shop? roughly......

[D@vid]

Originally Posted by djwhite

What's ballpark price for this repair at a reputable shop? roughly......

Good question, I'm planning on doing the work myself. Would be Nice to have an idea of the costs to have it done however.

[RichardNew]

Plan on at least $5,000. You could easily go over $10,000 if you keeping adding to the list.

"As long as we've done all this we might as well …."

I'm not sure if most people can do all of this work. You need some pretty good fabrication skills. That comes with a lot of experience.

Richard Newton

[RichardNew]

I got my rear seats from Tony yesterday. Tony did his usual magic. If I didn't know better I would say they contain horse hair. Remember, the trick is to restore things so they don't look as if they've been restored. At least that's the fashion this year.



The seats just about complete this phase of the project. I've gone from a semi-hot rod back to a street car. I can't believe how quiet the car is at this point. Then think about what I've done. I filled all the rust holes between the engine compartment and the passenger area. Then I replaced all the original sound deadener on the floor with something very close to original. Finally I installed real carpeting. No wonder there's a huge difference.

This wasn't a cheap project by any means. Then again I used the best materials and the best people in the business. If you're going to use the same shop that Miles Collier uses don't expect it to be cheap. On the other hand you can expect it to be perfect.

The next item on the list is to rebuild the front control arms. The inner bushings are worn out. I'm going to wait at least 6 months though. I need to catch up on my Visa card.

Richard Newton
Building Porsche 550-01