3.0 rebuild - what would you do?

[fritzgator]

Been thinking about your issue, and considering you geographic hinderances, for power and speed you've got the answer in your username. Taking Steves comments in consideration, i would lean toward keeping it stock disp. Get the cams, carbs,and exhaust. Have the heads worked,get your distributor recurved and enjoy it for the reason,i assume you bought it,having an aircooled 911. Hell you might have $$ to freshen the trans too.

[GT2BH]

Since my cylinders are alusil, it is recommended I replace them either way. If I am paying for a new set, any good reason why not go for the 3.2?

[Bill Douglas]

I think 3.2, cams, SSIs and keep the CIS would make a nice powerful reliable SC

[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by GT2BH

If it came down to EITHER a 3.2 setup with CIS or a 3.0 setup with PMOs, what would you choose?

My thoughts: given that I am collecting parts for a similar project & that I am in a "remote from the US" situation - (only slightly though, compared to you!)

The cost of getting speciality air cooled 911 work done in the US is way below what you would pay elsewhere (UK / EU / Australia! ) and the quality is most often excellent. This factor should balance out what you may pay in shipping.

As you need to do something with cylinders anyway, I would shoot for a 3.2 setup.

Get JE pistons to suit - at least 9.5 to 1 .

Your connecting rods may need 2 sorts of machine work, the little ends may need to be rebushed & maybe drilled offset as the 3.0 & 3.2 rods are different lengths. Then your rod big ends will need refinishing, especially if you use ARP rod bolts (recommended) .

I would also replace your CIS unless you can find a local who can troubleshoot the system. There is a lot of cold weather plumbing in CIS that you will never need.

You have also mentioned 964 cams, Head work & PMOs. So in your situation I would try and find a US shop who could coordinate things for you.

Good luck with it
Peter 78 3.0 SC

[SCrescue]

Originally Posted by GT2BH

Sorry, I didn't link my teardown thread as it has more info - Newbie engine teardown/rebuild - advice always welcome!

The engine is already apart and in pretty good condition. 115k miles on the odo and I don't have full history. The cylinders are Alusil. My tensioners already have the oil line going to them, so I made the assumption they are already oil-fed.

I can increase my budget to $15k but I was keeping a buffer for shipping costs. Like I said, I don't have access to a machine shop that specializes in 911s, so I might send out my heads and rods to Steve@rennsport.

Okay, I've read your teardown thread and now I understand what you're working with. While I agree stepping up to 3.2l is an attractive option, I think your money will be better spent sourcing a good used set of serviceable Mahle Nikasil 9.3:1 P&C's and putting the money into a set of PMOs or Webers. Send your cams to Dougherty to be re-profiled to 964 specs and have him refurb the rockers and shafts at the same time. I went with his DC-19 profile which is basically 964 with a bit more lift. This combination has worked well for me and I think you'd be happy with it for your intended purpose without breaking the bank.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

I think 3.2, cams, SSIs and keep the CIS would make a nice powerful reliable SC

If you are going to the cost of building a 3.2SS, why not get the 100mm pistons and cylinders? They don't cost any more and will give you a bit more displacement. Also, there is an old saying "horsepower is in the cylinder heads". A few bucks more spent for a set of heads with larger ports will go a long way towards giving you a powerful engine. And, by adding the twin plug ignition, you will be running much less timing advance (25 degrees vs 36 degrees) which will help reduce engine heat and allow the engine to run more comfortably on today's gasoline. And, if you choose to go the direct fire ignition route, you will eliminate the distributor (no caps and rotors to buy) and have adjustable timing! The combination of displacement, good heads and reasonable cams should give you a great street engine. If you build the 3.2 or 3.3 engine and keep the CIS (for now), it will be much easier at a later time to remove the CIS and add PMO carbs or ITBs. There are so many things that can be done, but it really depends on how you want to use the car. Street? Track? Autocross? Make the decision and then build to suit!

[Kemo]

I would get the PMOs just for the bling factor! To save some money, you can get your alusil cylinders replated in nickasil to stock diameter. I had mine done at EBS and ordered the JE pistons to match. The price is right also, call Don at EBS, hes the man.

[Steam Driver]

Pardon my ignorance here, but since I am at this getting rid of the Allusil crossroad, are the 3.2 P/C sets a "Plug 'n play" situation or is machine work required on the case/heads?

[fritzgator]

Originally Posted by GT2BH

Since my cylinders are alusil, it is recommended I replace them either way. If I am paying for a new set, any good reason why not go for the 3.2?

In that case ,no.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by Steam Driver

Pardon my ignorance here, but since I am at this getting rid of the Allusil crossroad, are the 3.2 P/C sets a "Plug 'n play" situation or is machine work required on the case/heads?

Sort of depends on what cylinders you use. I chose to use the LN Engineering 100mm slip fit cylinders that fit the existing spigots in the 3.0 liter block. The heads that I used were a set of Carrera heads that matched up well with the tops of the cylinders. While the LN Engineering cylinders were not cheap, using them did save the cost of some machine work.

[GT2BH]

After reading all that I want both a 3.2 and carbs.. my wife will be mad

OK, for arguments sake, lets assume I decide to go for 3.2 JE pistons 9.5:1 with matching cylinders (options?), 964 cams, and headers (since I don't need the heat). Along with that, get my heads and rods worked on. What shop would you recommend from experience? someone who can coordinate all this for me? I'd rather not deal with multiple vendors for obvious reasons.

If I get a quote for all the above, along with the new fuel lines, new harness and new oil piping with upgraded oil cooler and all other replaceables and still feel like I can afford to get the carbs then so be it. If not, then I'll probably do that as stage 2 next summer when its too hot to drive the car anyway. We have a good mechanic who can troubleshoot CIS if worse comes to worst.

The carb setup looks so good

[toddu]

Where are you geographically? They may help recommend a shop.

Todd

[timmy2]

He is in Bahrain, if I remember correctly.
Not too many local resources..


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[timmy2]

Put one of these on whatever engine you decide to build...
http://www.rothsport.com/Products/Engine/Fuel-Injection-Systems/FI-Systems.htm


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[GT2BH]

Originally Posted by toddu

Where are you geographically? They may help recommend a shop.

Todd

Originally Posted by timmy2

He is in Bahrain, if I remember correctly.
Not too many local resources..


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Dennis got it - just need to add that Bahrain is in the Middle East part of the budget is already earmarked for an awesome custom harness from Dennis so don't blame me for not getting carbs

If I'm shipping to the US, I can ship to any state

[GT2BH]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Put one of these on whatever engine you decide to build...
Welcome to Rothsport Racing - Engine Products


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Whats with the curve ball Dennis? I'll leave this for stage 2

[timmy2]

Quote de timmy2

Put one of these on whatever engine you decide to build...

Welcome to Rothsport Racing - Engine Products





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Whats with the curve ball Dennis? I'll leave this for stage 2

Lol, your question about 'what would you do' is very open ended.
I would like to go to independent throttle bodies at some point and with Rothsport just up the road from me, I have been there and seen most if not all of their intake systems.
Very nice stuff to say the least.

[GT2BH]

Do these carb kits, such as PMO or weber, come with their own fuel lines or would you need to get custom lines? what kind of work goes into changing the engine harness?

What is the real life benefit of going for ITBs?

[timmy2]

The fuel lines are just standard lines rated for ethanol here in crappy gas land. Low pressure for most systems regulated down. Any wiring harness would be application specific depending on controls used.
Benefit of ITB 's was explained by Steve. Throttle response and total HP improvements.
With EFI even more.
Lots of threads here on Pelican documenting installing all types of different intake systems.



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[zelrik911]

Originally Posted by GT2BH

What is the real life benefit of going for ITBs?

My friend has installed PMO ITB carbs on his rally/targa 911SC.

He now has rapid throttle response, the engine responds instantly to the gas pedal similar to a motor bike (japanese not HD!!) .

The CIS system is/was very good for the era as it balanced out various requirements such as emissions and economy and the demands of everyday suburban driving in all climates. My friends PMO car takes a minute or so to settle down after a cold start, its petrol economy is way less than with CIS, but it is now very very sporty.

I also agree with Fred Cook regarding the 100mm pistons and cylinders. Especially if they don't cost any more and will give you a bit more displacement.

Peter 78 3.0 SC