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Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Porsche 911 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/)
-   -   A/C Reverse The Gases in Early Model 911's (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/858116-c-reverse-gases-early-model-911s.html)

KelogGes 04-15-2015 07:35 PM
Reversing The Gases
My PFC's

Are Real and are better then any other solution for making an early model 911 COLD

Pazuzu 04-15-2015 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579126)
I GUESS EVERY MANUFACTURE IN THE WORLD HAS SWITCHED TO THIS TECHNOLOGY IS WRONG LOL

time to stop wasting my time with you
Wait, what technology, fans blowing across the main condenser and trinary switches??

Um...I think that EVERY MANUFACTURE (sic) IN THE WORLD just just that.

Pazuzu 04-15-2015 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579137)
Reversing The Gases
My PFC's

Are Real and are better then any other solution for making an early model 911 COLD
I'm waiting for you to admit that you didn't invent the "reverse gas flow". Go on, it's OK, we'll wait.

SilberUrS6 04-15-2015 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579137)
Reversing The Gases
My PFC's

Are Real and are better then any other solution for making an early model 911 COLD
A claim which still has no proof. Or even supporting evidence.

SilberUrS6 04-15-2015 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu (Post 8579142)
I'm waiting for you to admit that you didn't invent the "reverse gas flow". Go on, it's OK, we'll wait.
Reid never admits he's wrong. He just pouts and leaves the forum for a year.

Bob Kontak 04-15-2015 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest (Post 8579125)
Every owner of a '78-88 with factory A/C that is fully operational will tell you that it meets your criteria after 20-30 minutes of highway cruising.
My 81 stock system (ok - a Sanden) is at best in the low 50's vent temps when running well on a tepid day in Ohio.

Is this out of line with the norm? I never have heard an owner of a stock system in the years you are talking say "Damn, my evaporator keeps freezing up on me"

Not taking sides - just saying what I see.

KelogGes 04-15-2015 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by KelogGes
DUH ok rofl prove it

and market it here on Pelican Parts

its time people see right through you AND YOUR BS!




Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest (Post 8579125)
Do some research...!!

Every owner of a '78-88 with factory A/C that is fully operational will tell you that it meets your criteria after 20-30 minutes of highway cruising. Even Pelican technical notes advise owners to reduce the cooling level from max. within 20-30 minutes in order to prevent evaporator freezing.

Will the factory A/C provide more rapid cabin cooldown than one with aftermarket enhancements..??

Probably not... it depends...

Most aftermarket front lip condensers, like yours, primarily only use blower supplied cooling airflow, whereas the factory tube/fin is specifically designed to take advantage of that aspect... The faster your drive (this IS a Porsche!) the more A/C capability you will have.

Does using a more efficient aftermarket engine lid condenser, such as your PFC, help as much as providing additional cooling airflow when the engine cooling fan airflow is inadequate?

Has anyone provided any comparative data one method vs the other??

There can be no question that a more efficient rear lid condenser will add refrigerant condensing capability.

Also, there can be no question that providing additional cooling airflow, make-up airflow, when that supplied by the engine cooling fan is inadequate, will add refrigerant cooling capability.

Assuming either will provide adequate cooling enhancement what is the comparative gain adjusted by cost??

A trinary pressure switch plus 2 Spal 12 volt cooling fans vs Yours or Kuehl's IMPROVED rear lid condenser?

KelogGes 04-15-2015 07:54 PM
All my testing has been verified

SilberUrS6 04-15-2015 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579165)
All my testing has been verified
By an imaginary friend, no doubt.

If you had any actual evidence, you would have posted it by now. If this were Ronnie making these claims, you'd be the first to shout "liar!"

Ronnie's.930 04-15-2015 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579137)
Reversing The Gases
My PFC's

Are Real and are better then any other solution for making an early model 911 COLD
Where is the proof of this?

You have not demonstrated anything here that equals my custom system (similar to what many other people are running), utilizing a combination of serpentine and tube & fin heat exchanges, much less surpasses it in performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 8579143)
A claim which still has no proof. Or even supporting evidence.
But wait, he keeps repeating the claim, so it must be true, right?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 8579179)
If this were Ronnie making these claims, you'd be the first to shout "liar!"
Exactly!

Bob Kontak 04-15-2015 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 8579179)
If you had any actual evidence, you would have posted it by now. If this were Ronnie making these claims, you'd be the first to shout "liar!"
When I take my putting up with Ronnie medicine, I just can't keep up.

May just look at porn for a while. :D

wwest 04-15-2015 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 8579070)
Simply said to get under your skin.

Not a chance this is viable vs advanced heat exchangers. Zero plausibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8578463)
I don't need any additions to get colder temps than temps 30's degrees my system already get @ 95 F Ambient using ONLY 2 very lightweight pfc's in the OEM original body placement cavities with no appreciable engine oil temp rise when the A/C is ON LoL

IF YOU RACE THINK ABOUT THAT!

Bob, since when can a factory A/C system, fully operational, not meet KelogGes' above stated criteria?

30dF vent temps with OAT at 95dF, or even higher, is easily done with a factory system, at least the one in my '88, and I expect the '78 that I sold.

On the other hand, I do not subscribe to the idea of undercharging the A/C system in order to get vent temps, I think the system needs a full refrigerant charge to best handle a full heat load and pull the cabin temp down to a reasonable comfort level, ~75dF, quickest.

And I admit that I am growing tired of seeing these low vent temps quoted absent disclosure of the system inlet temperature. OAT is important to the overall equation but with without knowing the system inlet temperature that bit of information is useless.

It only takes about 20-30 minutes "at speed" over on the Wa dry side, HOT side, for my '88 to get vent temperatures in the range KelogGes quotes.

But even in our LS400, or the RX300, I am of the habit of turning the system to max cooling (or heat in winter), and then moderating the setting the airflow or air temperature begins to be discomforting.

Ronnie's.930 04-15-2015 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579126)
I GUESS EVERY MANUFACTURE IN THE WORLD HAS SWITCHED TO THIS TECHNOLOGY IS WRONG LOL

time to stop wasting my time with you
Not a single person who posts in these threads has said, or implied, this except you, Reid. The issue here is that you claim that the micro-channel gear that you make vastly outperforms other options in 911 a/c applications, and the evidence you have provided does not support your claim.

Ronnie's.930 04-15-2015 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 8579197)
When I take my putting up with Ronnie medicine . . .
I didn't know there was anything on the market capable of such a feat!!!

wwest 04-15-2015 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelogGes (Post 8579165)
All my testing has been verified

How can that be? You tell us that you can't supply before and after comparative data.

Ronnie's.930 04-15-2015 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest (Post 8579199)
On the other hand, I do not subscribe to the idea of undercharging the A/C system in order to get vent temps,
Who does? Certainly nobody I've seen post in the Pelican a/c threads (except maybe Reid with the "reverse gas" stuff).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest (Post 8579199)
I think the system needs a full refrigerant charge to best handle a full heat load and pull the cabin temp down to a reasonable comfort level, ~75dF, quickest.
Agreed - I have always fully charged my a/c systems (in all vehicles I have worked on).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest (Post 8579199)
And I admit that I am growing tired of seeing these low vent temps quoted absent disclosure of the system inlet temperature. OAT is important to the overall equation but with without knowing the system inlet temperature that bit of information is useless.
^^^ Sorry, but this is just plain silly.

KelogGes 04-15-2015 08:38 PM
The moderators are watching this thread

The only thing I see is harassment over and over coming from the same people

SilberUrS6 04-15-2015 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 (Post 8579207)

^^^ Sorry, but this is just plain silly.
Well, not really. If the inlet temp is 150*F and the outlet temp is 28*F, you have done some serious work.

If the inlet temp is 40*F and the outlet temp is 28*F, you're not doing much of anything.

While wwest might think he has scored some points there, he hasn't. Folks dont't run the AC in their garage in a closed car for an hour before showing vent temps. They are doing this stuff with the car doors open, during the charging and testing phase of the process. When people say what the climatic conditions are at the time of the test, they are giving a rough idea of what the inlet temp is. yes, over some time, you can get the cabin down to 60*F and nearly zero humidity. And then you can crank the thing up and get 23*F vent temps. :) But nobody is doing it like this, so its a bogus question.

KelogGes 04-15-2015 08:52 PM
A wolf pack with an agenda ONLY to harass IN The Pelican AlC Forums IS What you have

Bob Kontak 04-15-2015 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest (Post 8579199)
30dF vent temps with OAT at 95dF, or even higher, is easily done with a factory system, at least the one in my '88, and I expect the '78 that I sold.
You sold that to your son-in-law if I remember?

Anyhoo, I am a little confused given the fight discseven had to get his vent temps into the 30's that a stock SC can pull 30F vent temps as normal. He did have a 3.2 - but not a later one, maybe an 85?

Just my limited experience. Not wanting to wrestle one bit.


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