Howdy Dave its been awhile

I think its best at this time to wait & let the this CAB DIY owner install proceed before I answer any questions ; or maybe NOT even publish the installation DUE TO THE ALL THE dissension !


However last year I posted here THE HOW :cool:

Guys -

I've deleted some argumentative/insulting posts. I have no idea why these AC threads make grown men act like children. If you disagree with one another, that's fine. But behave politely or you'll be banned from Pelican.

Thank You Jack!!!

Actually my current setup has 5 hoses as well, just in a slightly different order:
Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to evaporator
Hose #4: evaporator to accumulator/dryer (in engine compartment.
Hose #5: Dryer to compressor
In all I ordered 15ft of #10, 15ft of #8, and 15ft of #6 barrier hose, and I have some left over in each size. I haven't measured but it might be a good indication of the total length of hose used.
My system does not use a VTX but an orifice tube instead. This required some plumbing work around the evaporator that was tedious.
The idea of going from the compressor to the front condenser was to dump as much heat there instead of in the engine compartment. We'll see if this makes a difference once the car is up and running and my AC charged.
As they say: more than one way to skin a cat...;)

Gilles for clarification VTX is normally written as TXV for Thermal Expansion Valve

EXCELLENT POST

Oh man, how did I miss the beginning of the 2016 a/c thread? Shoot all the good stuff was deleted, I guess.

Dave this should answer your question before and make it clear

Gilles, it will be fascinating to see the system performance numbers once you've completed the work (be interesting to compare to well built systems using "obsolete" componentry).

Thanks. I understand now.
I look forward to see how it performs.

Thanks
Dave

Let's put it this way: I subscribed. I don't have A/C nor do I ever plan on having A/C

^In Vegas, no less? I drove through there in an old Saab w/ no A/C once and passed out in traffic, I bet the blacktop was 140 F.

I'll check back on this thread when concrete numbers are presented with proof. I don't care what direction the gas goes, if the vent temps can equal or better the "obsolete" tech, with less stuff or weight at a similar level of effort, I'll call it a success.

Evaporator THEN dryer? That's new.

So, you do use 5 hoses despite his claims otherwise. I think we all understand why you are going to put the heaviest load on the non-engine condenser, but i think we're concerned that the small front one will just boil instead. I did the same with mine, but it was the underbelly condenser first, which did a good job of lowering the pressure for the engine bay one.


I can tell you that I used 22 ft of #6, 19 ft of #8 and 12 ft of #10 hose on mine. #8 from the compressor to underbelly condenser, #8 from underbelly to engine bay condenser, #6 from engine bay to front condenser, #6 from front to dryer, #6 from dryer to evaporator, and #10 from evaporator to compressor. You should run #8 between your condensers, since it will still be pressurized hot gas at that point.

Asphalt absorbs and retains a lot of heat and then radiates it upwards 140 F is probably about right I guess, 911 belly pan condensers sit just a few inches above the road Asphalt in the hot sun and why they don't condense a/c gases very well; Porsche learned the hard way after spending millions

Here in south Florida where 95 F and above is a record ambient temp

@ 92 F for example here a 911 parked in the sun when you first open the door the temp inside will exceed 180 F

its severally Illegal here to leave children inside a car unattended because they die!

Mike, I can review my diagram when I get home. I definitely used #8 between the condensers; I may have bought 2 x 15ft of #8 now that I think of it. I'll update the thread with the actual amount of #8 bought.
The reason I went from the evaporator to the accumulator/dryer was to ensure there is no liquid left before entering the compressor to avoid damage. It is the standard configuration when using a VOV valve instead of a TVX.

Hi guys,
In spite of some cryptic responses, it seems Reid has designed a somewhat conventional a/c system with certain features:

1. It is an accumulator/VOV system rather than receiver/dryer w/TXV
2. It has very nice PF condensers placed in the stock 3.2 positions.
3. He has chosen to make the front condenser first in the gas stream, then the deck lid condenser. That has some potential advantages as well as disadvantages. BTW his front condenser/fan assembly appears to be very specifically designed for this application.
4. The rest of the system is unknown to me, maybe I have forgotten some details.

It seems entirely possible that these detailed features may be very efficient and well designed. If that is true, then I would not be surprised to see very good performance. In fact, if the performance is so excellent I would deduce that those details were likely responsible. Let's see what Giles and Kathy say, then we can analyze why it works so well or why it doesn't.

Thanks,
Dave

Note: You MUST USE an ACCUMULATOR TANK WITH an ORIFICE TUBE METERING DEVICE OR YOU WILL DAMAGE THE A/C COMPRESSOR !!!

ahttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462311675.jpg

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MxHBD73VKfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Smart Smart VOV Variable Orifice Valve
 

Smart VOV Variable Orifice Valve

VOV Part 1: Interview with VOV inventor, Dick Kozinski

I am having Giles use a standard Smart VOV Variable Orifice Valve TO START WITH for initial a/c system testing

However I am probably going to switch the standard Smart VOV with a colder DESERT DUTY Smart VOV LATER ?

I found the invoice and so my order was 18 ft of #6, 18ft of #10, and 2 x 18 ft (36 ft) of #8.
Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser #8
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser #8
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to evaporator #6 with a #6 to #8 adapter
Hose #4: evaporator to accumulator/dryer (in engine compartment) #10
Hose #5: Dryer to compressor #10

I've yet to see performance numbers from the KelogGes system that rival a well built system using a combination of tube and fin and serpentine condensers and evaporators (and with conventional gas routing); what is the advantage of this "new" technology? Less weight, and if so, how much less?

No harm in doing something differently, but how does "new" render the "old" obsolete if the new doesn't perform any better?



PS- not talking about you Gilles, and kudos to you for trying it, but am talking about the performance numbers that the OP has posted here and elsewhere.

Why don't you just wait until this is finished before opening your mouth

I see that you have decided to not listen to Mr. Olsen.


Regardless, how is my question premature when a year ago you posted performance data about your system that is no better than what is attainable with "obsolete" gear?

Does Gilles have even newer, new technology than what you've talked about in this thread?

Bad Reid:
"Why don't you just wait until this is finished before opening your mouth"
Good Reid:
"Please be patient. The DIYer was delayed on this project, but will supply data as soon as it's available"

I don't understand his choice of action. He has given and taken a lot of crap on this topic but I wish he'd take the high road now.
Thanks,
Dave

Yes - is it at all possible for him - and everyone else - to take the high road?

Ronnie
I find you Exceedingly Annoying
I refuse to interact with you or give you any information !

Not Bob Kontak.

Pieholio ain't pretty but Pieholio knows horse pucky.

I hope that system blows 30F all day long in Phoenix in July so there is a real reason to have shut me up.

Out and regards.

"Give information"?

Reid, how about you simply explain to the forum how (in what way) your a/c gear has rendered all other options "obsolete"(a claim you have been loudly making for years), since the system performance data that you have posted does not back up that statement? Isn't that a reasonable request to be made of a person when they post that an invention of theirs is far superior to what is currently available and widely in use?

Where this 911 lives in California Giles last year told me in the summer when we were talking, if I remember correctly, ambient temp was 105 degrees and had been for days and this is not unusual.

I was surprised because I am from Cali originally and grew up there and know where he lives

Giles is using his front OEM squirrel-cage condenser blower at least at first on the initial install

I think after initial tests he is going to want dump THE OEM square-cage condenser blower

But I am very interested on the pressures and vent temps numbers with OEM blower with the very high ambient temps he will have very soon

I have a couple of enhanced front blower options designs I'VE made and I know they dump More Then Enough CFM air under pressure through the front PFC condenser blower, but they require instillation of a front PFC CUSTOM MADE shroud and a remote blower like I used on The TAN Swan and are a lot more labor, and the body needs to be slightly modified for this one which kicks ass with high CFM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462393748.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462397467.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462397653.jpg

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911 A/C RE-ROUTING The Refrigerant Gases Makes A Colder System
 

911 A/C RE-ROUTING The Refrigerant Gases Makes A Colder System


This is how Porsche should have engineered the installation ON THE 911 A/C System but they made a major A/C Design Error on every early model 911!!!

This simple A/C hoses change installed this way will GREATLY IMPROVE ANY early model 911s with A/C; REGARDLESS of the condensers used and also lower the OIL temperature RISE

You will see how well my discovery and invention works soon installed by DIY Giles

I will try to answer questions if they are respectful in a nicer way

Then you are still doing it wrong. If you want to sell product, you have to honest, helpful and adult. Yes, yes, everyone knows you're trying to sell product, and your comments that you aren't just make you look silly. Nobody here is dumb enough to not understand the point of your postings, so please just stop with the pretense that you are an "inventor" or a "pioneer", or any other such nonsense.

Focus on what you can show folks, and skip the transparent hype. And be nice to everyone. Otherwise, people will be sure to report your posts to the moderator, and he will come to understand exactly why some of these threads go south. Not because people have questions and comments, but because you can't seem to restrain yourself from being insulting.

I am thankful the moderators have cleaned this A/C threed!
 

Corvus Corvax

GO TROLL someplace else

NOTHING has been offered for sale here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Take your negativity with you!

When do you plan on following Mr. Olsen's directive?

And when do you plan on backing up your big, insulting claims of absolute a/c superiority with facts?

LET YOU know right after I talk with him!

Not to hijack this thread, but is there a tool for changing the muffler bearing and extrapolator valves? I figure this is done after a leak down test on the headlight fluid?

Could everyone please act like adults here?
Thanks,
Dave

I Agree !!!

https://youtu.be/RXJKdh1KZ0w

Pretty much sums up this thread...