Issue with Front Rebel bushing install. Spacer for crossmember?

[motofoto]

Hey all, I'm going through the install of a set of the Rebel Racing front bushings on my 1986 911, and I've run into a stumbling block.

The drivers side installed fine using the spherical washers, and I was able to achieve the free motion of the arm as desired. All is looking good.

I then began working on the passenger side, and it was binding no matter what combination I've tried. It moves, but it's about 10-15 lbs of pressure to move it. I even tried switching the bushings from side to side, same issue on passenger side. I've also tried flipping the front mounts upside down, same result.

The problem appears to be that the direction the control arm needs to go to be freed up is the opposite of where the adjustability comes in with the front spacers. In this case it appears that I need to space down the crossmember instead to correct the angle to free up the bushings. Is that something I can safely do? The crossmember appears it would need almost 1/8 inch of spacing down to line up with no friction. If I do it, do I need to use something besides washers to accomplish it?

Has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. I'm going to reach out to Clint as well, but I've had difficulty getting responses from him, so I'm trying to see if anyone here has faced something similar.

[frankc]

IMO, I don't think you can safely insert a spacer between crossmember and the chassis because there is a boss on the chassis at that attachment point that fits into a pocket on the crossmember to help center/locate it. Having a spacer at that location may allow the crossmember to shift around under load. Again, just my opinion.

I know its too late as you already have the RR parts, but I've read of others having issues obtaining a binding-free installation (not to mention the binding that may occur due to chassis flex) which is why I decide to go with the ER Sphericals up front. I do have the RR spring plate bushings, though - works of art.

[motofoto]

I was thinking the same in regards to the male/female points on the crossmember and chassis. The thickness of the spacer required would likely cause them to no longer interlock. I wasn't sure if the bolt would be enough to keep them in alignment.

[Flieger]

If you have access to a milling machine I suppose you could shave off a mm or two from the front mounts.

[zippy_gg]

I had an issue with the passenger side as well,and it turned out to be a slightly bent A-arm. The consensus on this forum was that I would be OK with my setup. It would take around 10 lbs to make the arm drop, so no big deal.
I don't have the car on the road yet (engine still out, new AC components to install, new cab top needed, etc...) so I can't comment on how the setup performs yet.

[motofoto]

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

Flieger, unfortunately the angle is such that with the crossmember buttoned up I can't get a smooth operation even with no mount on the front, so shaving some off that mount wouldn't be enough to do it. Thanks for the thought though.

[motofoto]

I may get as close as I can, and get it on the ground and see what it feels like. Might also be worth sourcing another control arm to test. Should have tested these before powdercoating the arms. :-) Thanks for sharing your experience zippy.

[SoCalSK8r]

Mine had slight binding as well. I discussed this with Clint and we determined it's not a big issue and pressed on. I've had my set up since August of 2014 and have no issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[motofoto]

Thanks SK8R it's good to have the confirmation.

[motofoto]

Got her back on the ground, and I still need to get it aligned/corner balanced, but there's no strange noises or anything, and it feels great, so I think it's all gonna work out as is. Never did hear back from Clint.

[mreid]

Moto,

I had the same issue on the driver side. The passenger side which I did first was perfect. I could hold the arm about 30 degrees above horizontal and it would drop to straight down. On the driver side, I realized it would never point straight down, so I adjusted it to be free + or - about 30 degrees and bolted it up. I also installed coilovers at the same time and it works great. I think you will be fine. Have fun!

[motofoto]

Just wanted to update now that I heard back from Clint since it seems I wasn't alone with this. I'd already completed the install and had the car corner balanced and aligned before I'd gotten the response, but maybe someone else can benefit from the knowledge. Car feels great as is though. I feel like I could have actually gone with bigger torsion bars than the 21/28 now that the spring rate from the rubber bushings is gone. The ride is very compliant as is.

Clint's response: "I think the 10-15 lbs is not much of a problem as they will free up once you put some miles on the car. If you want to eliminate it the method I use is to straighten the mounts on the chassis. Since the cross member needs to come down then the front housing wants to be tipped downward more. I remove the rear housing so nothing is holding up the back of the A arm, then use the A arm as a pry bar to very slightly tweak the area where the front bushing housing is bolted up. You want those two welded bungs to slightly move so that they hold the bushing housing at a different angle. Its a bit of trial and error if you want to get it perfect but I would say if you get close then thats good enough."

[A horse with no name]

Originally Posted by frankc

IMO, I don't think you can safely insert a spacer between cross-member and the chassis because there is a boss on the chassis at that attachment point that fits into a pocket on the cross-member to help center/locate it. Having a spacer at that location may allow the cross-member to shift around under load. Again, just my opinion.

I know its too late as you already have the RR parts, but I've read of others having issues obtaining a binding-free installation (not to mention the binding that may occur due to chassis flex) which is why I decide to go with the ER Sphericals up front. I do have the RR spring plate bushings, though - works of art.

Hi, I installed Elephant Racings bump steer bushing that fits between the cross member and the chassis. The two points that cross member fits into the chassis were not effected. The fit was the same before I installed the spacers. The point of the bump steer spacers is to line up the tie rods when lowering a 911. If the car has not been lowered I can't see why any spacer would be required.... Am I speaking about the same spacer? If not please excuse what I have just stated.


Quote: "Elephant Racing steering rack spacer kit helps to compensate for bump steer. They raise the steering rack 10mm, thus changing the angle of the tie rods and improving the bump steer behavior."

http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/bumpsteer/911bumpsteer.htm

"Extra bolts may be provided with your kit to make it universal fit, you will only use two."

Part No. OEM Equivalent Fit Configuration
2110905 '65 - '89

[motofoto]

The steering rack spacers go between the crossmember and the rack, not the crossmember and the chassis. Different thing.

[A horse with no name]

Originally Posted by motofoto

The steering rack spacers go between the cross-member and the rack, not the cross-member and the chassis. Different thing.

Your absolutely right... Sorry about that.

With Elephants ( any one's bump streer spacers) the cross beam does fit into the chassis's two male/female line up points. I would think that you can't use any spacers from the chassis to the top of the cross member other wise the cross member would then be free to turn.

[A horse with no name]

Originally Posted by motofoto

The steering rack spacers go between the crossmember and the rack, not the crossmember and the chassis. Different thing.

I was though commenting on this post:

Originally Posted by frankc View Post
IMO, I don't think you can safely insert a spacer between cross-member and the chassis because there is a boss on the chassis at that attachment point

[proffighter]

Had a similar issue, check my "another rust combat" thread about. Concerning spacer I can say that the 930 has one from factory to lower the crossmember, also male/female layout. so no problem there with spacer if made going into eachother.

PS the normal spherical bushes may not give enough angle, so I went to biger ones (outside diameter).