Looking for ideas... I need a new project

[betiller]

Singer now offers a 4.0. I think Pink builds them.

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Questions on the research list.

Anyone know if Singer publishes engine specs for any of their cars? I gather they've used at least a couple of different engine builders from reading old posts.

Their engines are built by Cosworth in LA. I seem to remember hearing the general specs in one of the videos - maybe Chris Harris?

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Pstallo

I know Singer offers a 3.6 with 270 HP and a 360 HP 3.8L engine. I don't know if they publish any other specs on it, but I bet a 3.8L engine in that car feels like a rocket.

I am on the same page with you--my car has been as much an enjoyable education in cars as it has been something fun to drive. I can look at something in my car, post a question on this forum, and get an amazing amount of info from the experience of others.

You know what I would do if I could? I would get a 3.6 liter engine and an engine stand and take my time learning everything about it as I took it apart. Then, you can do whatever mods you want to it like ITB's, dual-plug, whatever. Once it's done, you could put it in something else or drop the monster into your existing car. You could certainly build something that looks like a Singer engine.

That is very much in line with my thinking right now.

I knew that Singer makes a 3.8. I was just wondering if anyone knew, or maybe speculated about, the specs. Which pistons, cams, etc. I think I remember reading they use the Jenvey ITBs. Just wondering which engine management system they use. There seems like an awful lot of good choices on the market today. I would like to see some different engine management interfaces up close in person.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons to go the ITB route is the ability to use more lively cams.

I was also reading last night where someone claimed that the performance of the varioram is not because of the dual plenum but because of the the bigger ports. If that's true and I really were to get away from the stock engine management, maybe that means a varioram based engine is a better starting point.

I would like to read up on some 'hot rodded' 3.6-based builds and study what they did and why.

I have been reading billjam's thread recently. He has amazing skills. I particularly like how he fit the older style oil cooler. Uwanna did the same thing on his 3.6.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

Their engines are built by Cosworth in LA. I seem to remember hearing the general specs in one of the videos - maybe Chris Harris?

I now remember seeing that video a long time ago. Thanks for the reminder.

Should've been no surprise that Harvey Weidman did the wheels. I imagine that other than noting it has ITB and a GT3 crank they are probably not very keen on giving out too many details.

Obviously the Singers are at a entirely different level. Still I think they are worthy inspiration.

One of the guys in the video said something along the lines of "it's very easy to take something that has been well engineered and muck it up." A lot of wisdom in that statement.

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by tirwin

I now remember seeing that video a long time ago. Thanks for the reminder.

Should've been no surprise that Harvey Weidman did the wheels. I imagine that other than noting it has ITB and a GT3 crank they are probably not very keen on giving out too many details.

Obviously the Singers are at a entirely different level. Still I think they are worthy inspiration.

One of the guys in the video said something along the lines of "it's very easy to take something that has been well engineered and muck it up." A lot of wisdom in that statement.

The other good line if from someone in the Vintage Racing world (Goodwood?)... that goes something like "these cars already have history. The only history you can add to that is bad..."

I don't know how tight lipped they are about their process. I imagine they get a lot of "tire kickers" and don't have the time humor them all. Rothsport up here in OR is also a fabulous engine builder. Jeff is pretty generous with information, especially if you're doing at least a token amount of business with him. I buy my Brad Penn from him and use the opportunity to pick his brain while I'm there.

This conversation has gotten me thinking .... what if... one could mate up a C4 or similar AWD driveline to a pre-smog ('74 here in OR) chassis with a nice tidy little 3.6 or 3.8 built powerplant? That would be a fun car to drive... sort of a Binky goes Porsche project.... Wow that could get expensive...but cool...

[Tippy]

If a 3.0, I'd put a TBitz EFI kit on it

[Bob Kontak]

Georgia time window for exempting cars from emissions? 25 years?

I like the 964 option, if so.

What's the dealio on the Mezger motor? They are present through the 993, I think, so no issues there. Is that correct?

Does the 993 have adjustable cam timing? That has to help.

[lateapex911]

You're going about this all wrong. Come to CT and help me with my car. I can easily come up with 5 yrs of work for ya!

Seriously, good luck, so many better choices.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

The other good line if from someone in the Vintage Racing world (Goodwood?)... that goes something like "these cars already have history. The only history you can add to that is bad..."

I don't know how tight lipped they are about their process. I imagine they get a lot of "tire kickers" and don't have the time humor them all. Rothsport up here in OR is also a fabulous engine builder. Jeff is pretty generous with information, especially if you're doing at least a token amount of business with him. I buy my Brad Penn from him and use the opportunity to pick his brain while I'm there.

This conversation has gotten me thinking .... what if... one could mate up a C4 or similar AWD driveline to a pre-smog ('74 here in OR) chassis with a nice tidy little 3.6 or 3.8 built powerplant? That would be a fun car to drive... sort of a Binky goes Porsche project.... Wow that could get expensive...but cool...

Hmmm... Short answer: I have no idea. Besides the driveline itself, what other stuff would have to come along? I noticed in the Singer video that they had the ABS module up front. Interesting idea though!

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Georgia time window for exempting cars from emissions? 25 years?

I like the 964 option, if so.

What's the dealio on the Mezger motor? They are present through the 993, I think, so no issues there. Is that correct?

Does the 993 have adjustable cam timing? That has to help.

Yep, 25. Emissions only applies to the greater Atlanta metro area. Up until 1998 you could apply for an exemption for kit cars, hot rods, etc. Not any more. There is a link to an EPA doc on compliance for non-original engines I haven't read yet.

'96 and later have to be connected via OBD-II. There is a different process for pre-OBD testing. No idea what that entails.

I believe you are correct on the Mezger. Last year I thought about going the 3.6 route in the current car. Short version was that the '95 engine was sort of a sweet spot.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Tippy

If a 3.0, I'd put a TBitz EFI kit on it

Tippy,

Considered that last year while I had my engine out.

Have you seen this thread?

911 Engine Management Kit

Looks like a really well thought out system.

I'm really leaning towards a 3.6 starting point but nothing is firmly decided at this point.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by lateapex911

You're going about this all wrong. Come to CT and help me with my car. I can easily come up with 5 yrs of work for ya!

Seriously, good luck, so many better choices.

The company I work for has our HQ in Acton, MA. How far away is that?

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Tippy,

Considered that last year while I had my engine out.

Have you seen this thread?

911 Engine Management Kit

Looks like a really well thought out system.

I'm really leaning towards a 3.6 starting point but nothing is firmly decided at this point.

I sure have, both kits are beautifully executed. I personally seen the TBitz in person on a 3.0, and the openess of the engine compartment with clean fuel rails just looked awfully beautiful.

Makes the car look so light and nimble removing that honking CIS and bloated airbox.

I think you can't go wrong with either kit, but I believe there is a far larger following with MegaSquirt than AEM.

[tirwin]

This is my engine about a year ago. It seemed like such a shame to put all that CIS stuff back on. It works great now, but it sure is ugly.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by tirwin

'96 and later have to be connected via OBD-II. There is a different process for pre-OBD testing. No idea what that entails.

Snap-ON MT2500's for sale on Ebay with the mid 2000's Euro, Domestic and Asian cartridges $500-700-ish Kit probably will include adapters to pre OBD 2. However, the newer Porsche specific unit may be best and it is probably retro OBD2 compliant. Can't remember name. I think there is only one real provider. Ross-Tech is VW. Someone will know the name.

[tirwin]

Oi. I just read through the GA DMV policy.

No longer possible to obtain 'hot rod' status in GA.

If I don't want to deal with emissions I'm left with '90 and earlier chassis choices. More reason to start with the engine. By the time I get done I will have probably bought another year or two worth of chassis options. Getting emissions done may not be a big deal but I'd prefer to just not have to deal with it.

Or I could move.

"Kids, we're moving back to Alabama. Daddy needs a hot rod."

[Charles Freeborn]

pre-'90 is an awful lot of really good platforms to choose from...
As for doing an AWD transplant, you'd start with a C4 that had miraculously been dropped or rolled on it's roof without damaging any of the running gear and start cutting away the tub until you've got just the mounting points left. Then start cutting and welding your pre-90 tub to accept it all. There will be many cups of tea...or coffee for us Yanks.
-c