Electromotive Tec?

[Pstallo]

I've been browsing some posts about engine upgrades and frequently see the use of the Electromotive Tec-3r and variations of it.

What exactly is it? Is it just a modern replacement for the Bosch Motronic that many of us have? Or does it enable to tune your own fuel injection or something? Is it by itself an upgrade over the Motronic or just a requirement for more advanced upgrades like PMO carbs?

In some car magazines, I see the term Motec used. Are Motec and Electromotive sort of the same thing?

(The only reason I ask this here is that I know it's the only community where I can ask a stupid question and come away educated and not persecuted for my ignorance)

[Steve@Rennsport]

Motec & Electromotive Tec3 are both brands of Engine Management Systems.

These do what the OEM Motronic systems do and much much more.

All of these EMS's allow one with the proper tools, knowledge and experience to tune the fuel injection and ignition systems.

[Tippy]

They are fully programmable electronic fuel injection computers. Key words, fully programmable.

[Tidybuoy]

I have Electromotive TEC GT in my 911. This is what I'm using when I converted to PMO electronic injection. There are different models depending on your needs (I,e., turbo, twin plug, etc..)

The Electromotive setup uses a special replacement belt pulley that has teeth on it and a sensor that reads the teeth. This setup completely replaces the distributor as the electromotive computer (which I mounted under my driver seat) senses the position of the crankshaft and then controls the ignition. On my setup, the coil and cdi are replaced with a 3-coil direct fire system.

When I started this project, I contacted Clewett Engineering, who sets these systems up and I asked if I wanted to do this in steps, how would I do this and they told me that you would do the Electromotive first, then the injection system later. Basically, the Electromotive can run your ignition with your existing carbs or CIS but you cannot do an efi system without this type of engine management computer.

The Electromotive computer is totally customizable and Clewett writes a starter program that is designed for your engine (i.e., 2.7, 3.0, etc..). This gets loaded into the Electromotive via my laptop. After that, you can leave as is or you can create modified programs designed for your use (i.e., track, street, max fuel efficiency, etc). You can create several of these programs and load them into the Electromotive as you need them (similar to a sport mode button on a modern car).

Here's a few photos of my setup and the special trigger wheel I mentioned above:

[lateapex911]

You came to the right place. To take it a step further, each company has it's niche among the others of the genre. Motec is often used in race cars, (or street cars like the Atom where a ECU and dash are needed), and they make a number of "Dash displays', like this one, mounted in a 911.
Thats their tried and true style.
They have others like this:
Some of the dashes are used with the stock ECU and serve as data aquisition systems for racecars.
Typically, as the other posters said, in the cars you're referencing, the systems like Electromotive and motec are used to upgrade the stock ECU and fuel injection /ignition control systems, but...they are not cheap, and they are often blank slates, YOU must supply the programming.
Thats where guys like Steve from Rennsport come in...

[Pstallo]

Wow. That looks cool and probably very complicated. (and thank you for the education)

Do they connect to the wires that go to the existing Motronic unit or do you run all new wiring from the engine to the unit?

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Pstallo

Do they connect to the wires that go to the existing Motronic unit or do you run all new wiring from the engine to the unit?

The Electromotive uses its own wire harness. In my case, I installed in a '74 911 so there was no original harness to replace as the 74 is pre-computer. I ran my harness following the same route as the later cars and then connected to the various sensors.

The Electromotive harness comes with extra wires that allow you to add & control various accessories (i.e., nitris oxide, valet switch, fuel pumps, etc..).

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Pstallo

Wow. That looks cool and probably very complicated. (and thank you for the education)

Do they connect to the wires that go to the existing Motronic unit or do you run all new wiring from the engine to the unit?

Since we use Motec EMS, we made an adapter that allows one to retain the OEM Motronic engine harness and connector which plugs right into the Motec M84 ECU.

Saves a lot of time & money when you don't have to build a harness from scratch.

[crashmy911]

Talk to Steve before you head down this slippery slope.

[al lkosmal]

[QUOTE=Steve@Rennsport;8821424]Motec & Electromotive Tec3 are both brands of Engine Management Systems.

"All of these EMS's allow one with the proper tools, knowledge and experience to tune the fuel injection and ignition systems."


Steve hit the essentials above....there is a learning curve. You either learn...or pay someone who has. ...........but it is worth it.


regards,
al

[boy83]

It is important that you pick a system that you can tune properly or you
have access to someone familiar with the EMS that you pick so it can be tuned properly.

[Tippy]

If thousands of 16 year-olds can figure it out on their Honda with advanced engine characteristics like variable valve timing, just about anyone with a hint of computer, electrical, and engine theory knowledge can learn EFI.

[Lapkritis]

I've used quite a few over the years. Best value/capability is currently VEMS. Supports onboard wideband O2, Bluetooth connectivity for digital display on a tablet, and the features that units costing many times the retail. Some people have resorted to re-branding these as they're such a bargain.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Tippy

If thousands of 16 year-olds can figure it out on their Honda with advanced engine characteristics like variable valve timing, just about anyone with a hint of computer, electrical, and engine theory knowledge can learn EFI.

Or go back to school... EFI University Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning :: View topic - WinTec4 Automatic VE

[Tidybuoy]

With my Electromotive TEC GT, Clewett sent me a starter program which enabled me to get the engine running. After that, I had to balance the airflow to the throttle bodies (easy to do).

Prior to getting this starter program, I browsed thru the Electromotive software and it somewhat walks you thru the basics (I.e, # of Cylinders, Redline RPM, Desired Idle RPM, etc). Then there are some more advanced questions and many settings that can be changed. I'm still a novice with this but I have learned a lot on this forum as there are guys that have posted there settings with pictures of the diagrams in the TEC. I plan on taking to a dyno shop but I will learn myself as they tune and I watch - the internet helps a lot.

[rwest]

So, if you put it on a car in stages and the controller comes first, how does it control CIS, or does it just adjust ignition/spark?

I just did a pretty good refurb of my CIS- hoses, seals, plug wires, plugs, engine fuel lines, gaskets and an air box and spent well over a grand only to still have a less than perfect running car. Which got me thinking, that it won't be too long until the price of EFI is low enough that it will make more sense.

What is the approx. price to put in a complete system on a stock motor to replace the CIS?

[Pstallo]

That's a good question, rwest. I was wondering the same thing. It sounds like a 'modern' way to go.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by rwest

...

What is the approx. price to put in a complete system on a stock motor to replace the CIS?

For PMO Injection + TEC ~ 5K for single plugs & 6K for twin plugs systems.

Porsche 911 & 930 : Clewett Engineering, The complete solution for ignition & fuel injection

Lots of good deal on used or never used systems right here on PP sale forum.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by rwest

So, if you put it on a car in stages and the controller comes first, how does it control CIS, or does it just adjust ignition/spark?

I just did a pretty good refurb of my CIS- hoses, seals, plug wires, plugs, engine fuel lines, gaskets and an air box and spent well over a grand only to still have a less than perfect running car. Which got me thinking, that it won't be too long until the price of EFI is low enough that it will make more sense.

What is the approx. price to put in a complete system on a stock motor to replace the CIS?

If budget will only allow the TEC, then it will just be used for the ignition and won't have any effect on the CIS. Later, you can add PMO or other EFI system and the TEC will then be used to control it.

[Dr DIY]

Take a look at Megasquirt while you are at it. I'm currently looking into this system for a NA 944. Very interesting.