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-   -   Sal Carceller's chip and injector system for 3.2 (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/889886-sal-carcellers-chip-injector-system-3-2-a.html)

gliding_serpent 11-20-2015 07:16 PM

Peter, our engine specs are near identical (if i remember correclty, our only difference was the muffler, and i may spring for a dansk sport to match), so i watched your build closely. I am also going for the maf, so we can trade notes. Did you ever get your car on a dynojet closer to sea level? I am hoping to benchmark you.

In a perfect world i may be doing some controversial comparisons next year that include dansk sport vs m+k, and sals maf/injectors/chip vs sw stage 2 chip/stock injectors/afm (paid for it, why not give it a try). On top of that, i would like to see if ssi's can produce more than 220rwhp, which I have been told by a well known source is the upper limit of what ssi's can flow... But which Sal seems to be surpassing.

If sal can do that, he may just save me 2-3k $$$ on b&b headers... Although knowing me, if he can do that with ssi's, i may just go b&b anyway for even more power (given the great ssi resale value). Should be fun if I can find the time to do it all properly.

pooder 11-21-2015 05:33 AM

I did take the car to a shop with a dynojet but the dyno's computer failed during the first run so it was aborted and I have not been back.

DaveMcKenz 11-21-2015 06:40 AM

As per Sal's detailed instructions, I have removed or moved a few components to expose the fuel rails.
On the driver's side this is mostly disconnecting the three-plug sensor bracket, unbolting it and zip-tying it out of the way (label or mark the black connectors to put back properly). I also pulled the injector connectors.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448120152.jpg

On the passenger side I simply removed the air filter/housing. I left the AFM in place. Also pulled the injector connectors. So far wiggling these off has been the most challenging. There's one on each side that's a little hard to grab, and the injectors themselves rotate a little making it hard to wiggle. Anyway the new injectors have a different connector, but an adapter is included for each.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448120359.jpg

The above is about 30 minutes work for a novice like me. Next, I will open the fuel lines and pull the old injectors.
Thanks for watching,
Dave

DaveMcKenz 11-21-2015 08:20 AM

Well I'm ready to do the actual injector swap. Here's the Ford Racing injector that I'm installing, along with the adapter for our electrical connectors:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448125937.jpg

First I relieved the pressure in the fuel system by removing the pressure test cap. You will lose a few teaspoons of fuel here. More will be left in the rails and will spill when injectors are pulled.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448126086.jpg

Next I pulled the injector retainer clips (not used on new ones) and separated each rail from its anchoring points. Then starting in the rear, I wiggled each injector out of the intake, then out of the rail. With a little lube provided I reversed the process, finally securing each rail as before. I rotated and verified full insertion of each injector before tightening the rails.
I going to let the gas fumes dissipate a little then jumper the fuel pump to test for leaks. You can see the purple injectors on each side:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448126349.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448126404.jpg

Dave

DaveMcKenz 11-21-2015 09:05 AM

IT LIVES!!
I tested for fuel leaks, found none, then replaced the sensors bracket and connectors. I connected all the injector wiring.
Then I went to my Sal-modified DME. Sal want his fuel quality switch set to #4. The switch serves a totally different function on his DME, and is used to fine-tune the fuel mixture. The blue knob at the left of the picture.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448128802.jpg

Then I installed Sal's custom chip. You can see it to the top of the picture.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448128887.jpg

These posts have been real time install, and even with breaks, pictures and inexperience the job took me about two hours. The car idles extremely smoothly, and throttle response is awesome. I only let the engine run for a minute or so. i want to work on my new MSDS air filter w/adapter. Then I will let engine come to operating temp and start to go through some of Sal's calibration steps. Mostly analyzing AFR's at various RPM's and loads.
So far I am very pleased.
Thanks,
Dave

BrakeL8 11-21-2015 09:26 AM

Thanks for the pics Dave! Very helpful to a fellow novice considering the same.

DaveMcKenz 11-21-2015 10:36 AM

Thanks. Car seems fine, but here's my weather situation. No fun for a while.
Dave
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448134565.jpg

gliding_serpent 11-21-2015 11:18 AM

Nice. Looks easy. Easer for me with a heat backdate and ac delete. We have no snow, but the salt is down.

How much calibration can you do in garage? Snow will be my reality for the next 4-5 months.

scarceller 11-21-2015 11:47 AM

I can get a very good idea of what the mixture adjustments may be from just the tests done parked in neutral.

If testing in a garage be sure you have ample air flow, you'd be amazed how quickly you can deplete air in a closed space and CO is not your friend!

Use caution.

DaveMcKenz 11-23-2015 07:56 AM

Due to family visitors I have to put the 911 on its storage lift for a few weeks. There is plenty of ice and salt on the roads here so I don't think I will drive it now for a while. Before I put it away, I noticed a couple of things (all good).
I warmed up the engine. Very nice cold start and solid idle. I set the idle to 920 with jumper and digital timing light.
I reved to 2500-3000 and held each speed constant. The AFR stayed in the 14.6--14.8 range
My idle AFR was 14.8.15.0.
I closed the mixture screw about 1/4-1/2 turn and got 14.5 @ 2500 and 14.6-14.8 @ idle.
I jumpered the brown wires at DME, and just like Sal said it stayed at a 12.9-13.0 at 2500 and at idle.
I unjumpered the brown wires and all went back to as before. On no-load tip in the AFR's go down to 13 or so, but we'll see more on the road in a couple of months.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Dave

scarceller 11-23-2015 08:58 AM

Dave,
I'm very pleased with these results, the system as is will most likely need no tune changes on the chip. Your AFM is very much on spec with my test AFM, I have a AFM with only 5000 miles on it! I had this AFM flowed on a flow bench and the chip is matched to this special test AFM. The fact that you hit the same targets tells me your AFM is in decent shape. The other important model is the Fuel Injector model and that I know is spot on since those are my matched injectors. Any deviations between the test setup I use here and your car would be the result of an AFM not matching mine or fuel pressure changes.

So far so good.
When you are ready to road test drive let me know.

Enjoy.

gliding_serpent 11-23-2015 06:31 PM

the brown wires are traditionally for retarding the timing for emissions if my memory serves. California emissions suck. Is it being used to richen the mixture as a "track tune" here? :-O

Mr. Merk 11-24-2015 03:42 AM

subscribed

scarceller 11-24-2015 04:06 AM

It's not a track tune, it's a special calibration mode for all my chips. It makes it extremely easy to see if base mixture is correct across all operating conditions. This mode is only to be used for calibrating and verifying mixture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent (Post 8889613)
the brown wires are traditionally for retarding the timing for emissions if my memory serves. California emissions suck. Is it being used to richen the mixture as a "track tune" here? :-O


stlrj 11-24-2015 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz (Post 8886419)
Well I'm ready to do the actual injector swap. Here's the Ford Racing injector that I'm installing, along with the adapter for our electrical connectors:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448125937.jpg
Dave


The injectors look identical to the 24# Ford injectors offered here:

Ford Racing Mustang EV6 High Flow Injectors - 24 lb M-9593-LU24A (87-14 All) - Free Shipping

I wonder if the 36# Ford injectors are also the same color?

Cheers,

Joe

DaveMcKenz 11-24-2015 04:42 AM

Yeah Joe
That looks like the one. You need electrical adapters. They came in Ford Racing box.
Dave

stlrj 11-24-2015 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz (Post 8889882)
Yeah Joe
That looks like the one. You need electrical adapters. They came in Ford Racing box.
Dave

You mean these?

EV1 EV6 EV14 Uscar Fuel Injector Connectors LS6 Ford Chevy Dodge Fast LS2 LS3 GM | eBay

Did the Ford racing box say 24# on the label or was it marked 36#? Just curious.

Joe

DaveMcKenz 11-24-2015 06:20 AM

Dunno. Sal?
Those look correct. Definitely 24# injectors.
Dave

gliding_serpent 11-24-2015 07:41 AM

Just a warning, the injectors may be drop in... But without the chip being programmed for their unique specs, you will cause more harm than good (if they even run).

stlrj 11-24-2015 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent (Post 8890139)
Just a warning, the injectors may be drop in... But without the chip being programmed for their unique specs, you will cause more harm than good (if they even run).

I am aware of that. I've already tried a multitude of injectors, from Chevy 3.1 to Buick 3.8s and they all work... some better than others. Just looking for better options, spray patterns etc. If they fit, I'll make them work even if I have to tweek my AFM.

Cheers,

Joe


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