AC Redo – Some Questions

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If your compressor is the original 30+ year old unit I suspect you will get a few months of use out of it before the nose seal blows or the entire compressor gives up. They are not cheap, so it is a tough choice.

That's what happened to mine, the nose seal gave up 9 months after I got done with the rest. At this age, I'd probably replace it. The Denso 'remanufactured' cpmpressors (in a Denso labeled box) are actually brand new, and not that hard to find. I'd recommend it.

[hoss4659]

Given that my AC requirements are more severe as I live in the desert Southwest where we can experience daily high temps of over 100* F for weeks at a time, I opted to do the full Griffiths upgrade on my '88 Carrera coupe. It took my ace technician 18 hours to replace all the hoses with the barrier version, install new compressor, evaporator, front condensor, add the two additional condensors and fans in the left rear fender and all the other assorted bit and pieces. Griffiths says 22 hours is the norm. Expensive, yes. But I now have a car that I drive year round with an AC that come close to making ice cubes. If I was living in more temperate climes I could probably gotten by with a less extensive upgrade. R-12 is still available if your are willing to pay the price. New barrier hoses seemed a better choice.

[Ramp]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If your compressor is the original 30+ year old unit

The compressor is a Nippondenso. Is there a way to guesstimate its age ? It appears that most - if not all- my hoses have been replaced with barrier hoses. So, there's a chance this is not the original compressor.

[Billytex1]

just personal opinion here - I'd proceed with hose replacement, because of 2 factors - first, age - second, R134a molecules are (seriously) smaller than the R12 the hoses were designed for - and the new refrigerant will slowly leak through the standard rubber a/c hoses - won't completely discharge, but over winter it'll go down to static charge in the 50# range when it needs to be well above that (depending on resting temperatures) - plus it would be a great idea to break open every fitting and replace o-rings - all of them at every fitting - after all these years they're old, flattened, and will leak with 124a refrigerant.

Beautiful job - really great work - congrats!! Enjoy the cool when it's back running - you'll love it!!

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

Recommend replacing the original hoses, yes this part stinks, with new barrier hoses, don't forget the receiver drier. The more Kuel/Griffiths parts you can budget, the happier you'll be. Great stuff.

strongly agree with this, and what you are doing.
if you or anyone does not pull all the hoses out you need to check for a leak in the system before removing anything.
I found both my long hoses had leaks.

my suggestion for an AC rebuild.
just replace ALL the hoses.
pull all the coils, have them pressure checked then flush.
replace dryer and TXV

[Discseven]

Way to dive in Ramp! The fuzzball over the front condenser... that's a beautiful find. Taking it all apart is the way to go.

[tirwin]

I know somewhere in the late '80s Porsche added an in-line fuse to the front condenser blower motor. If your '87 doesn't have one already that's a good "while you're in there" addition. Prevents a fire hazard if the motor seizes. There have been a few Pelicans that have posted pictures of their car after such a fire.

Part #: PEL-612-077-00

Or you can of course make your own.

-T

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Way to dive in Ramp! The fuzzball over the front condenser... that's a beautiful find. Taking it all apart is the way to go.

Yep. Ramp ain't messing around.

In your rebuild thread I may have posted a factory oil distribution chart for projects like this. I think I can find it and I will look in the 3.2 workshop manuals. Everything is clean and empty so the oil is best distributed "now" into the individual pieces when reassembled. It's nothing earth shattering but an oz here and two oz's there. That sort of thing. Also, what oil will be used?

I also remember the "fines" discussion. I think you may as well. The issue was "black stuff" is bad. Ramp has seen black stuff. You saw no black stuff when you cleaned/drained your components. If I recall, the black stuff is from the compressor if it is failing.

Might be money well spent to snag another compressor. Just throwing it out there.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Yep. Ramp ain't messing around.

In your rebuild thread I may have posted a factory oil distribution chart for projects like this. I think I can find it and I will look in the 3.2 workshop manuals. Everything is clean and empty so the oil is best distributed "now" into the individual pieces when reassembled. It's nothing earth shattering but an oz here and two oz's there. That sort of thing. Also, what oil will be used?

I also remember the "fines" discussion. I think you may as well. The issue was "black stuff" is bad. Ramp has seen black stuff. You saw no black stuff when you cleaned/drained your components. If I recall, the black stuff is from the compressor if it is failing.

Might be money well spent to snag another compressor. Just throwing it out there.

Bob... u remain immortalized for the "check bottom of the evap" which in my case revealed the major death-cause of my AC.

"Fines" were indeed much discussed. Hose ends, evap and condensers were all q-tip swabbed. As you & I recall, those were all clean. It was the drier portals that showed a black, sooty-like substance on the swaps... leading me to cut the drier in half for entertainment. Bottom of drier chamber contains desiccant. Top half or so is an open chamber. Inside that top area, the lining of the chamber was coated with the black, sooty-like stuff.

On the subject of "black stuff" being associated to compressor failure... my system worked very well until about 9 months after my AC rebuild/post. Then the system failed rather quickly. With all things but the compressor having been attended in the rebuild, I went to it first. Oil showed on the shaft so... Replaced the shaft-seal and system worked for a short while... made an odd noise... and I shut it down. Not a big deal with winter on hand. (In a few weeks as temps rise, I'll be forced to pull the compressor to sort that out.)

Goes to show how important it is to cover EVERY component of these systems... which is why I commented on Ramp's comprehensive approach. I failed to attend my compressor when all else was apart... and now am headed for a return trip.

Agreed... with everything clean, now Ramp can very accurately load the oil. Have to be clear on whether measurement is fluid or by weight.

Ramp, very curious to see what your pressures are and what vent temp you arrive at. Given your approach, you should do well.

This AC thread has a nice patina to it so far. Where's MONSTERON?!

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Discseven

This AC thread has a nice patina to it so far. Where's MONSTERON?!

Uhhhh, check post #15, bisch!!!

PS - I instantly though of you when the OP posted the pics of the animal leavings on the evap and front condenser . . . I said to myself, "dude has nothing on the shag carpet that Karl found growing on the bottom of his car's evaporator! "!

Originally Posted by Discseven

Oil showed on the shaft so...

[Ramp]

Thanks for all the support guys. Unfortunately for me, this is turning into a bit larger than expected with today's finds. Looks like I may need to take the consensus approach and replace the lines.

Could use some help figuring this out. If you recall, three of my hoses have part numbers (91157315305, 91157315003, 911-573-152-03) which all seem to be new barrier hoses, BUT, the other end of at least 2 of them have a sequence in blue ink as follows : Codan 150 14 1986 - See pic. My initial reaction was these are 1986 original hoses.

Thoughts on whether these hoses are original or replaced barrier hoses.



Next issue, as I was checking around, look what I found. See next pic. I am coming to grips with having to replace the lines BUT I still want to know if these hoses are the new barrier or are original.



ALSO, are there any threads with pics that detail the hose replacement ? It looks pretty darn tight feeding them around stuff and do I need to take off the side rockers ? It looks like I also need to take off the ground guard under the steering column ! One issue at a time I don't mind, but my to do list is now going onto page 3.

Bonus: I thought I would put this up for future reference. I plan on replacing the Thermostat copper guide tube with a new piece sourced from the local hobby shop - they use them for propeller shafts in remote controlled boats.

[Ramp]

Self explanatory black stuff

[Ronnie's.930]

^^^

Looks about like the contents of the spittoon at Bob's shop, and/or Karl's bong water!!!

[Ramp]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

^^^

Looks about like the contents of the spittoon at Bob's shop, and/or Karl's bong water!!!

LOL

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

^^^

Looks about like the contents of the spittoon at Bob's shop, and/or Karl's bong water!!!

Bong water left. Spittoon right.

This is good info provided by Ramp.

Guessing right is rear and left is front condenser?

This may end up to be a really informative thread.

I would suggest sleeping on things and then consider a new compressor. I can't say this is your problem (you had a killer mouse nest). However, GT wants maybe $800-ish for a wizz bang upgrade to the one you have.

Ouch. But you will be set - long time.

Are you going with R134 or R12? Charlie can load oil.

Don't skimp. Steal from 401k. Just a hint. It is that important. Your kids don't really need college this year.

[Ramp]

Left is rear condenser, right is Evap.

Will be using R134.

Going to order new hoses and in the meantime finish off the reconditioning of the blowers, rear condenser and Evap box. Will post pics of the finished Evap box this weekend.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Uhhhh, check post #15, bisch!!!

PS - I instantly though of you when the OP posted the pics of the animal leavings on the evap and front condenser . . . I said to myself, "dude has nothing on the shag carpet that Karl found growing on the bottom of his car's evaporator! "!

HA! #15... classic U & Bob Rono! I've been forum AWOL for a while and so missing all the poetry you guys create. Is good to be back in the land of MONSTERS.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Ramp

Left is rear condenser, right is Evap.

Will be using R134.

Going to order new hoses and in the meantime finish off the reconditioning of the blowers, rear condenser and Evap box. Will post pics of the finished Evap box this weekend.

Hoses are straight forward to replace Ramp. The higher you get your car the easier it is to make swaps. Having a car overhead while standing is best due to access. To swap hose while laying on your back... worst program possible---slows everything up.

Will suggest comparing old hose length and fitting orientation to new hose before making swaps so you know what your dealing with in advance of install. Most difficult hose area is passage to/from front condenser depending on what your car has in wheel well. Takes under an hour to extract old hose. Little more than an hour to swap new in with car overhead. Martini break included. Am not sure if your hose is orig or new barrier from markings. Hose that's split open... is that from rot or a road slash?

Not sure what to say about "spitton & bong" water. My immediate reaction... compressor is bad (but perhaps that's Rono's blood.) Charlie should chime in on that stuff... He's probably seen it time & time again.

Very admirable project. Moreso that you are photodoc'ing and posting. Joking around as we tend does not discount the excellent info in your pics and the experience you share. Compliments Ramp.

[Ramp]

Discseven:

This is very helpful, thanks.

Replacing the hoses makes this a much bigger project that I will struggle finding time to complete - Spring is here and I want the car back up (I meant to start in January but ....)

I'll follow your hose advise and remove/replace one at a time.

I bought a lift a few years ago and would NOT have attempted this with out it. One of my best buys ever. Not enough room to stand but can sit very nicely on a rolling stool with car overhead.

The rip looks like a nice even cut - not sure from what. The rubber is not new but it's not rotten either.

I'll revisit the compressor issue later and start looking at options.

The front driver fender has a washer tank that looks like it may need to come out to feed those lines through.

Q1: Do I need to take off the side rocker panels ?
Q2: Do I need to remove the guard plate that sits below the steering rack ?

P.S. - I'm pretty sure the black stuff is bong juice from recycling cabin air.

[rokemester]

Best AC thread ever! Thanks to the brave souls who convinced our generous host to clamp down on the road noise. I'm not getting confused. Thanks and will apply this great learning when I get my lift installed.